[mizzouxc]

I'm really interested in the new Titan XD with the Cummins, but I'm really concerned after a visit to my local dealer. Where I live dealers are real hit or miss--mostly miss. There's almost no competition, so they take advantage of the uninformed local population.

However, I've become numb to that and have learned to just buy out of town or state. Luckily, we do have a couple of good dealers with good service departments, but they're not Nissan dealers.

Since I won't pay over MSRP for a vehicle, I'll have to buy it out of state; so I'm mostly concerned about the service department. After shrugging off a sales person attempting to sell me used car marked up a couple thousand over blue book retail with the ignition cut, I went to sit in the service area waiting to see how the service advisers treated customers. (*cut ignition - Dealers here love to cut the ignition and put in a "security" device that just involves plugging in a 1/4" phono plug into the unit to complete the circuit, charging the customer $500 for the inconvenience) I digress.

There was a nice older lady who had a leaf. She didn't know anything about cars, but liked she didn't have to buy gas. Fair enough. She came in for her routine service, which really just involves cabin filter replacement, checking the driveline, connecting the battery to their diagnostic tool and rotating the tires. I was talking with her and asked her if she minded sharing the maintenance costs when she was done. She was charged for an engine air filter, engine oil filter, 5 quarts of synthetic engine oil (0w20), crush washer and oil disposal fees alongside the cabin filter and tire rotation. Disgusting. I circled all the things on the invoice that were bogus and sent her after the service manager.

I won't go into as much detail, but the first service for customers they tried to upsell 2 other customers brake fluid flushes and full transmission fluid changes. (on cars with less than 10k miles) Should I mention the $120 strong arm on filling tires with nitrogen? My sister has had the same experience with Nissan dealers where she lives -- about 1000 miles away from me.

While I'm interested in buying this truck, the dealer experience ruined my interest. I wish car manufacturers would just sell direct to the customer like Tesla.

 

[M1lkman]

Well this sounds awful! I took a peek at the Nissan Leaf maintenance schedule and I have to agree!

Like anything, there are good and bad dealers as well as people who simply take advantage or their position or people.

What I would suggest, having grown up in a car dealership, is to let the General Manager or Dealer Principal (owner) know about what's going on. The one thing to remember is Service Managers and Service Writers (and parts guys sometimes) are paid based on percentages of sales/performance targets. In my humble opinion, this leads to theft and deceit if the General Manager or Owner are not hands on in my experience. So I would venture to guess that they have no idea the service department is fleecing people because they see monthly sales doing well etc and unless they are auditing things or like I say being hands on, this leads to complacency and at time and in the end situations as you mention above.

Lastly, it has been my experience that companies like Honda, Toyoya, Nissan et al take customer concerns seriously. If you hit a dead end at the dealership because it is one of those multiple dealer type deals that seem to have little personal touch to things and no one available to speak with, then call or email Nissan. They will follow up with you and sort it out with the dealer.

Hope that helps the perspective.

Cheers!

 

[mizzouxc]

I've experienced the exact opposite. Often times it's the GM/Management/Owner that are behind it. Had an experience with VW where I provided constructive feedback both to the local dealer and corporate. I tried to resolve the issue of an incorrectly installed tire of the wrong size at the lowest level first. I experienced massive backlash from the local dealer. (I got a little curb rash on a wheel and needed a new tire/wheel combo - totally my fault, no haggling for warranty or a "deal") I only attempted to provide constructive feedback after I was berated for "not being a mechanic" and "how could I possibly know anything about tire sizes or proper installation". The tire size didn't match the others and said, "this side in" on the outside of the tire.

Regarding the most recent Leaf owner's experience, the manager of the service department (which I meant to say earlier), stood behind his employee's "oil change" with the Leaf owner until she pointed out that there was an engine air filter and cabin filter and her car didn't take engine oil. (Note: it is fraud to charge for something and not perform the work or provide the product, especially when it's IMPOSSIBLE!)

This dealer also cuts the ignition on almost every used car and install this 1/4" phono plug security device and out of the 50 new cars I looked at, they wanted > msrp plus add on a pile of tacky, non-oem, dealer-installed and mandatory accessories. It would be naive to think the GM / Owner isn't aware of this.

I think I'm going to talk to Nissan corporate and get a feel for their dealer/manufacturer relationship. Nissan makes a great product but it seems like they have little oversight of the dealer experience. I'd like to own this truck, but if there isn't a brand representative behind that product that I can trust, I won't buy.

I currently have had a great experience with another brand. Had to buy in another town because they wouldn't special order for me, but the service department is great. When I did buy, the initial offer for the purchase was 500 over invoice or about 12.5% off msrp. I didn't even have to haggle, that was their initial offer no strings attached like extended warranties, service contracts, etc.

 

[M1lkman]

I've experienced the exact opposite. Often times it's the GM/Management/Owner that are behind it. Had an experience with VW where I provided constructive feedback both to the local dealer and corporate. I tried to resolve the issue of an incorrectly installed tire of the wrong size at the lowest level first. I experienced massive backlash from the local dealer. (I got a little curb rash on a wheel and needed a new tire/wheel combo - totally my fault, no haggling for warranty or a "deal") I only attempted to provide constructive feedback after I was berated for "not being a mechanic" and "how could I possibly know anything about tire sizes or proper installation". The tire size didn't match the others and said, "this side in" on the outside of the tire.

Regarding the most recent Leaf owner's experience, the manager of the service department (which I meant to say earlier), stood behind his employee's "oil change" with the Leaf owner until she pointed out that there was an engine air filter and cabin filter and her car didn't take engine oil. (Note: it is fraud to charge for something and not perform the work or provide the product, especially when it's IMPOSSIBLE!)

This dealer also cuts the ignition on almost every used car and install this 1/4" phono plug security device and out of the 50 new cars I looked at, they wanted > msrp plus add on a pile of tacky, non-oem, dealer-installed and mandatory accessories. It would be naive to think the GM / Owner isn't aware of this.

I think I'm going to talk to Nissan corporate and get a feel for their dealer/manufacturer relationship. Nissan makes a great product but it seems like they have little oversight of the dealer experience. I'd like to own this truck, but if there isn't a brand representative behind that product that I can trust, I won't buy.

I currently have had a great experience with another brand. Had to buy in another town because they wouldn't special order for me, but the service department is great. When I did buy, the initial offer for the purchase was 500 over invoice or about 12.5% off msrp. I didn't even have to haggle, that was their initial offer no strings attached like extended warranties, service contracts, etc.

Ah man that sucks! Sorry to hear about that. You win some and you lose some I suppose! Leadership is from the top down as they say!!

You might not have to look far in Nissan to find someone who stands behind their products. Fred Diaz crossed the floor over to Nissan a few years ago. Some credit him for the late success of the Ram Brand when the last body style changed. The new Titan was a priority when he came over. He is a truck guy through and through!

Cheers Mizzouxc

M1lks

 

[NavyCuda]

Just remember that it's not just Nissan dealerships that scam, no dealership can be trusted.

I'm considering letting my battery warrenty void and not letting the service people touch my Leaf.

Even at an honest dealership things get broken, stripped, overtorqued or glued back in so it looks like they did their job.

 

[brulaz]

I've got a horror story about a Toronto VW dealer's service department. But won't bore you. The stories are legion on the web and all are probably true.

But I've also been happy with a local Ford dealer's service department. So I wouldn't say all dealer service departments are garbage ... but still. You do have to be cautious.

No idea what the local Nissan dealer is like. Am expecting the worst though especially with a new vehicle. I hate that.

 

[M1lkman]

I've got a horror story about a Toronto VW dealer's service department. But won't bore you. The stories are legion on the web and all are probably true.

But I've also been happy with a local Ford dealer's service department. So I wouldn't say all dealer service departments are garbage ... but still. You do have to be cautious.

No idea what the local Nissan dealer is like. Am expecting the worst though especially with a new vehicle. I hate that.

Very good points...

Its funny. I have worked most jobs in a car dealership in the service department, working my way up from customer ride guy, vehicle wash guy to parts and service manager. I almost think it's a handicap as I am almost NEVER happy with service I get now that I no longer work in that field lol.

That being said, I have had great service with a GM dealer for my work truck and horrible service at the Honda dealer for my wife's car. And I have been on the receiving end of a customer complaint through Honda corporate and let me tell you..They do listen!

 

[mizzouxc]

I'm glad I'm not the only one with dealer trust issues. I was stationed in Germany for awhile and the general attitude at the dealerships seemed much different than here in the states. I could have been a little naive, but it seemed like people were interested in the product worked there. In the states it seems like people are interested in money and happen to sell cars.

I have a BMW motorcycle. Went into buy some hard cases for my bike and mentioned how nice the showroom floor looked after they had remodeled and how you could interact much better with the accessories. I got an ear full about how expensive the remodel was and that BMW corporate forced them to showcase the brand. To be honest, the shop looked like crap before. I'm 100% sure the dealer would have never remodeled unless BMW forced them to do it.

Like Nissan, BMW makes a great product, but I feel the US dealer owners ruin it for me. Money isn't the problem to me, it's the lies, deceit and poor service that irk me.

The whole reason I went to visit my local Nissan dealer is because so many places aren't good to do business with. You get burned a couple of times and you learn to proceed with caution.

 

[mizzouxc]

Just remember that it's not just Nissan dealerships that scam, no dealership can be trusted.

I'm considering letting my battery warrenty void and not letting the service people touch my Leaf.

Even at an honest dealership things get broken, stripped, overtorqued or glued back in so it looks like they did their job.

What's a leaf battery cost?

 

[NavyCuda]

What's a leaf battery cost?

I don't know to be honest. The warranty on the battery is 168,000km and the internet suggests they settle out around 70% capacity as they age which is still plenty for my commute, having a charging station on both sides.

 

[M1lkman]

I don't know to be honest. The warranty on the battery is 168,000km and the internet suggests they settle out around 70% capacity as they age which is still plenty for my commute, having a charging station on both sides.

That sounds about right. I have a 2005 Accord Hybrid that still works quite fine a 200 000kms and I notice the battery side retains far less of a charge than before but it doesn't seem to affect my mileage or performance...

M1lks

 

[mizzouxc]

I don't know to be honest. The warranty on the battery is 168,000km and the internet suggests they settle out around 70% capacity as they age which is still plenty for my commute, having a charging station on both sides.

It looks like Nissan has quoted a price of about $5,500 for a battery.

Not bad, overall about 10 cents a mile in consumables (electricity+battery) over 100k miles. I'd think it would be hard to rack up 100k miles with an at most an 84 mile range and a 4 hr charge time at 220V. Just visiting family for various holidays I put about 6k miles on my truck a year spending about 18 cents a mile on fuel and 1.5 cents a mile on oil changes.

If you plan on keeping the car over 100k miles, you might consider making a reserve fund of 5.5 cents a mile each month. It'll make the $5500 battery purchase more bearable in 10 years when you rack up the miles! Worst case is you have a nice down payment for another car.

What's the real range on your leaf with the AC/Heater going?

 

[Jackalope]

What's a leaf battery cost?

~$7,000 but I think I read where they were going to drop that to $5,500

 

[Jackalope]

It looks like Nissan has quoted a price of about $5,500 for a battery.

Not bad, overall about 10 cents a mile in consumables (electricity+battery) over 100k miles. I'd think it would be hard to rack up 100k miles with an at most an 84 mile range and a 4 hr charge time at 220V. Just visiting family for various holidays I put about 6k miles on my truck a year spending about 18 cents a mile on fuel and 1.5 cents a mile on oil changes.

If you plan on keeping the car over 100k miles, you might consider making a reserve fund of 5.5 cents a mile each month. It'll make the $5500 battery purchase more bearable in 10 years when you rack up the miles! Worst case is you have a nice down payment for another car.

What's the real range on your leaf with the AC/Heater going?

About 75 miles...

Yes, I have one and solar too, it just make sense. I drive the Titan a lot less now but it has over 200,000 miles on it and still makes more power then when it was new

 

[NavyCuda]

My commute is 130km, round trip. Today I just passed 8000km on the Leaf and I've had the car ~9weeks.

Just my commute alone is 2500km/month. Count in running around, visiting people, etc and it adds up fast.

I installed a 6.6kw L2 charger at work and they refuse to let me pay for the electricity(bonus!). At home I use the L1 trickle charger.

I would say, driving the car like I would any other car, rather aggressively I can safely get 120km to a charge. Because I charge on both sides, I see about 48% remaining battery when I get to work and about 53% when I get home. I guess home is somewhat downhill from work.

I'm honestly not that worried about battery lifespan, they seem to settle out around 70% of capacity and that still leaves me breathing room.

I'm so impressed with the Leaf, when Infiniti finally brings their EV to the market I'll give it a good hard look and will consider trading up at that point.

Because I bought the Leaf I have to wait until next year to think about buying the Titan XD, but when I do buy it I'll keep the Leaf as my daily driver and put pleasure plates on the XD.

Oh and in terms of climate control, I always use it. Has excellent AC. The most I've seen is 1.5kW of draw from the climate control. At 105-115km/h the motor draws ~20kW, so at worse the climate control could burn 10km of range, but once it has reached the right cabin temperature the climate control falls off to 250-500w.

 

[mizzouxc]

Nice NavyCuda. After putting two and two together, and added twelve and carried five; come up with a little over 5 years to 100,000 miles. Glad you're getting your money's worth. Do they have the same 100k mile battery warranty in Canadia?

 

[NavyCuda]

168,000km or 8 years, whichever comes first. Works out to roughly 104,000miles.

It was the best impulse buy I've ever had. Went in for oil filters, left with a Leaf!

 

[TheGreatTitan]

Did the Leaf lady end up going after the dealership for fraud?

 

[mizzouxc]

Did the Leaf lady end up going after the dealership for fraud?

I hope so. I didn't stick around much after she got her money back; I was pretty disgusted with that dealer. She was a pretty passive lady and was "just going to pay" to avoid any confrontations. I convinced her at minimum being stolen from like that wasn't good and she went in to have a chat with the boss man. I'd wager they got away with it.