[Tiger7]

I know many of you on here are long time diesel guys, but there are some guys on here (like me) who have never owned diesel. That being said, I have been doing research on total cost of ownership for Diesel vs. Gas for purposes of considering the new XD. Here is the best study I have found which comes from the University of Michigan. It has all of the big truck manufacturers and some European non truck models.

http://www.umtri.umich.edu/sites/default/files/UMTRI.TCO_.Final_.Report.06.24.13.Final_.pdf

This study is definitely pushing me to get a diesel for my next vehicle and the Titan XD is my number 1 choice. I hope this helps with yall's decision making.

 

[TheGreatTitan]

Thanks for the study! Depending on where you're from, Diesel is usually a bit cheaper than normal gas so you do save a bit over the years and Diesel trucks are getting more and more fuel efficient.

 

[Forge]

Though I haven't read a study I have heard and read in articles that diesel cost of ownership is better than petrol. It's definitely one of the leading reasons I'm interested in the Titan.

 

[M1lkman]

Having owned a few, I would say quite often it's a wash. The reason I want another diesel is for towing and not feeling like I am spewing raw fuel out of the exhaust pipe and stopping every 300km to fill up. Also I want a truck that doesn't exhibit the transmission hunting to find a gear on hills while towing which helps have a feeling of confidence.

Ten years ago it was black and white. Diesels ran longer and had better fuel economy bar none. Now, with emissions, the fuel economy seems to be less (although coming back up slowly as technology gets better) but also there is some growing pains with emissions. It happened with gas engines in the 70's so now it's diesel's turn.

Now, the big three have gone beyond what a lot of us need or want. I really don't need the bragging rights of 1000ft/lb of torque and 14mpg but it sure seems to be heading that way. Now, you will find forum posts where people are getting 21mpg with a Powerstroke or a Ram Cummins but the trucks I have been in with friends or work acquaintances show a different real world picture to me.

I am definitely one of the "white spacers" Nissan is targeting with this truck/engine combo...

Now, what the Ram Ecodiesel did to me was get me back interested in owning a diesel truck primarily due to the fuel economy but I just can't find the gusto to pull the trigger.. When you hang around the Ecodiesel forum, the engine still has some growing pains that FCA seems happy to let the customers suffer through instead of making large changes to address them. This is where Nissan has a window. Make this engine bulletproof WITH the emissions and allow for some impressive fuel economy when empty...Like 21 to 23 MPG combined would be enough for me to pull the trigger.

Sorry for the brain dump but I figure there might be some first time diesel owners the new Titan will attract that could benefit from an honest view of the Diesel pickup industry

M1lks

on edit: Also what Nissan/Cummins was smart to do with this truck was not making it so that this engine needs to run fancy oil. I read an article that I can't seem to find this second that said that was one of their goals. This is an important issue when weighing cost of ownership is definitely the cost of an oil change. Back in 1991, I owned a Ram with a Cummins diesel. Now that truck had 150hp and 400ft/lbs of torque and I used to pull cars around the Province. The oil change interval was something like 12000kms however it took 12.5l of oil if IRC. An issue I see with cost of ownership with the Ram Ecodiesel is oil changes are $300 and you need a special european spec'd (which will become better and hopefully cheaper as time goes on) but that is a big cost of ownership considering my Ford Ecoboost I run currently for work runs about $90 for an oil change/16000kms on average all in. (All prices CAN$)

 

[Bianchi]

from what I understand its completely dependent on context. You pay a higher price for diesel motors then gas, so provided you're laying down enough mileage for you to pay back the premium in fuel savings yes it makes economic sense. But if you;re looking at say a 7 year pay back like with hybrids... well is it really worth it to you?

 

[brulaz]

Agree with everything you've said M1lkman.

But I would add that the RAM Ecodiesel is very low on payload (1400# max?) and power/torque compared to the Nissan XD. It's nowhere near to that "white-space" Nissan is targeting.

To me, the only comparable truck to the Nissan XD is the F150 3.5L EcoB with the HD Payload option. It's a "heavy-half" but no diesel, so the mileage will be worse. It will be cheaper though. Perhaps a lot cheaper. But I don't think it's as rugged, especially the drive train.

 

[M1lkman]

Agree with everything you've said M1lkman.

But I would add that the RAM Ecodiesel is very low on payload (1400# max?) and power/torque compared to the Nissan XD. It's nowhere near to that "white-space" Nissan is targeting.

To me, the only comparable truck to the Nissan XD is the F150 3.5L EcoB with the HD Payload option. It's a "heavy-half" but no diesel, so the mileage will be worse. It will be cheaper though. Perhaps a lot cheaper. But I don't think it's as rugged, especially the drive train.

Oh yes, I agree wholeheartedly. I was typing fast lol. I meant to say that I got interested in a diesel pickup again due to the Ecodiesel initially as I loved the fuel economy but the reliability is in question as is the payload as you mention. (thanks for reminding me about that point).

 

[TurboDiesel]

Oh yes, I agree wholeheartedly. I was typing fast lol. I meant to say that I got interested in a diesel pickup again due to the Ecodiesel initially as I loved the fuel economy but the reliability is in question as is the payload as you mention. (thanks for reminding me about that point).

Some folks I know are concerned enough about reliability that they've gone right to gasoline. Might turn out to be a smart move.

 

[shakethatdiesel]

I completely expect the Cummins diesel to out perform similar gas engine in towing, pretty exited too see the true numbers.


Chevrolet Silverado 6.2 V8 12,000 lbs (5443 kg) with max trailering package
F-150 3.5L EcoBoost V6 12,200 lbs (5,534 kg) with HD package

 

[M1lkman]

Some folks I know are concerned enough about reliability that they've gone right to gasoline. Might turn out to be a smart move.

Yeah...It was questionable after 2007 but I'm thinking we should be on the home stretch. You should have seen the OTR truck guys...My neighbour up the street owns a fleet of them and he was ready to pull his hair out. Better now however.
This engine has apparently been in the making (concept/design etc) for 10 years. Here's hoping they got the kinks out. Remember the whole Ford Ecoboost propaganda about putting x amount of miles on it and giving it to a logging company etc then they tore it down with something like 500 000kms and there was little wear etc...Well, my work Ecoboost is far from trouble free. All show and no go as they say lol. So here's hoping Nissan and cummins have torture test this combo...

I completely expect the Cummins diesel to out perform similar gas engine in towing, pretty exited too see the true numbers.

Yup me too!!

 

[brulaz]

M1lkman, sounds like you've got a rare lemon of an EcoB.
A lot of us have had zero problems ... So far anyway.

With respect to cost of ownership. It also works out better for diesel up in Canada because our fuel prices are higher than in the States. Every little increase in fuel efficiency (like going from gas to diesel) has a bigger impact because of the generally higher fuel prices.

Still, when I was looking for a little commuter back in 2011, we cross-shopped the VW Golf TDI with the Cruze Eco and ended up with the Cruze. At the time, it's hwy mileage wasn't that different (currently getting 40mpgUS, 5.8L/100km) and the initial cost was substantially lower. And it doesn't get driven that much.

For a heavily driven tow truck though, diesel makes more sense cost-wise to me.

 

[M1lkman]

M1lkman, sounds like you've got a rare lemon of an EcoB.
A lot of us have had zero problems ... So far anyway.

With respect to cost of ownership. It also works out better for diesel up in Canada because our fuel prices are higher than in the States. Every little increase in fuel efficiency (like going from gas to diesel) has a bigger impact because of the generally higher fuel prices.

Still, when I was looking for a little commuter back in 2011, we cross-shopped the VW Golf TDI with the Cruze Eco and ended up with the Cruze. At the time, it's hwy mileage wasn't that different (currently getting 40mpgUS, 5.8L/100km) and the initial cost was substantially lower. And it doesn't get driven that much.

For a heavily driven tow truck though, diesel makes more sense cost-wise to me.

No I don't have one...One of the few diesels I have not owned. Just from what I was reading on the Ram Ecodiesel forum and what my family have told me who work at a Dodge dealer. I am glad to hear yours is running great!

Best diesel I had was the old 5.9l Cummins in a 91 Ram. Unfortunately the tranny was awful as was some other issues with the truck.

Funny story.. My steering box went outside of warranty and would you believe I got a power steering box out of a 69 Power Wagon from the auto wrecker and it was IDENTICAL? hahah. I still laugh about that!! I wasn't even born in 1969 . When the auto wrecker guy told me they were the same I really was skeptical until the mechanic put it on and we had a real chuckle.

M1lks

 

[brulaz]

errr, that was EcoB (oost), not EcoD (iesel).
But not important. :grin2:
I'll be more careful next time.

 

[M1lkman]

errr, that was EcoB (oost), not EcoD (iesel).
But not important. :grin2:
I'll be more careful next time.

LMAO!!

whoops! lol

My bad!

 

[Nissan_CA]

I know many of you on here are long time diesel guys, but there are some guys on here (like me) who have never owned diesel. That being said, I have been doing research on total cost of ownership for Diesel vs. Gas for purposes of considering the new XD. Here is the best study I have found which comes from the University of Michigan. It has all of the big truck manufacturers and some European non truck models.

http://www.umtri.umich.edu/sites/default/files/UMTRI.TCO_.Final_.Report.06.24.13.Final_.pdf

This study is definitely pushing me to get a diesel for my next vehicle and the Titan XD is my number 1 choice. I hope this helps with yall's decision making.

Hi Tiger7,

The Gas vs Diesel comparison is one with a lot of history and a lot of good arguments in both camps. What we can say about the 5.0L Cummins diesel is that the innovation and technology in this engine make it a step above the other diesel offerings on the market today.

Our Nissan Titan expert tackles that age-old gas vs. diesel debate in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brzw7kd9ZZ0

 

[NavyCuda]

Nissan_CA.

That clip doesn't answer anything. If you don't know enough to know that the clip doesn't answer anything you probably shouldn't be representing Nissans interests.

The presentor in the clip did not appear to have the confidence of actually understanding the subject matter.

The simple answer as to why diesel is better is in two parts. One, diesel fuel has more energy density than gasoline. Two, compression ignition means the engine can run at almost any airfuel ratio. This also means diesel engines can run much higher pressure ratios.

 

[crappie man]

To me its like a sports car that performs and cost x amount and you love the way it handles. Same with diesel in a truck. If you like the torque and like me I don't tow a lot but do lift my truck 6 inches and put bigger tires on and the diesel torque handles it much better and I love that part. Plus when I do tow it holds the hills and handles so much better, So cost isn't what I look at its comfort in the truck and ride and the diesel torque. If you tow a lot of times and not even 12k but even 5k or 6k or less you will feel big difference in gas and diesel

 

[nihilus]

That was a good report.
The focus here should be the GM 2500 and Ram 2500 after 5 years. We will ignore the ford since some of those sales were the 6.0 and 6.4 Ford diesels.

One thing to consider is lack of return of investment. Let me illustrate:

Person A buys a gasser Chevy 2500 for $40,000 and then invest $10,000 in a moderate risk fund.
Person B buys a diesel Chevy 2500 for $50,000 with nothing left over.

In 5 years later:
Person A sells his gasser for $25,000 and then collects his mutual funds of $14,000
Person B sells his diesel for $35,000 with nothing else left.

Since person A (gas) had less money "tied up", he is left with $39,000
Person B (diesel) is left with only $35,000

Just something to consider.

 

[brulaz]

That was a good report.
The focus here should be the GM 2500 and Ram 2500 after 5 years. We will ignore the ford since some of those sales were the 6.0 and 6.4 Ford diesels.

One thing to consider is lack of return of investment. Let me illustrate:

Person A buys a gasser Chevy 2500 for $40,000 and then invest $10,000 in a moderate risk fund.
Person B buys a diesel Chevy 2500 for $50,000 with nothing left over.

In 5 years later:
Person A sells his gasser for $25,000 and then collects his mutual funds of $14,000
Person B sells his diesel for $35,000 with nothing else left.

Since person A (gas) had less money "tied up", he is left with $39,000
Person B (diesel) is left with only $35,000

Just something to consider.

Heh, you sound like my retirement fund adviser.:grin2:

If I had followed his advice the initial 10K investment in Alberta oil and gas companies would now be worth a lot less. If I put it in the savings account, it would still be worth 10K but I wouldn't have had a diesel for 5 years, just a whiny, high-revving, gasser.

But I understand your intent. Save your money and make non-risky investments with it. That's always good advice but not necessarily the most fun.

 

[MoparProud]

Fellas, diesel vs gas should NOT be a financial decision. You either need or want the diesel or you don't, end of story.

People try to twist crap financially for some reason that I'll never understand; buy what you want.

The new diesels, there's no telling what the long-term costs will be; on surface value, the diesel cost more up front, and maintains resale value much better than does the gas engine. However, there are certain "risks" involved with the new diesel engines, and that is those of fuel injector failure and emissions system failure/issues. After the warranty is up, if you're on the hook to replace injectors or emissions system, you've tanked any financial benefit you thought you were getting by purchasing the diesel in the first place.

ANY Common Rail injection system is more prone to massive failure than are older mechanical systems (12 or 24v Cummins, pre-6.4 Powerstroke, pre-Duramax GM). If one has a non-CR diesel and has an injector fail, many times you can simply replace that injector and keep on trucking. Lose an injector in a CR diesel and it's very possible you can have a melted piston...been there, done that with both my trucks.

And then there is the cost of a CR injector compared to a mechanical injector.

And the replacement cost of emission system....

But rarely are these possibilities accounted for.

Buy what you want or need, save the financial nonsense for your retirement fund.