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Discussion Starter #1
I am having trouble making the math work with my gasser and I have a payload capacity of 2039lbs. With a smaller 5th wheel with a pin weight of around 1300lbs I am running out of payload fast. Most diesels I have looked at seem to be well below 2000lbs.



Also, do the diesels have higher GCVR #s because of the engine torque or some other reason? i.e. Almost 19000lbs vs. almost 18000lbs.


Just trying to rule out a 5th wheel or not in our purchasing decision.
 

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You will not have super high payload #’s till you get into a one ton srw. I’ve been looking again at upgrading to a fifth and getting a new truck. I’ve been shocked at the low payload numbers on f250 and 2500 ram, around 2300lbs for each and only gaining a few thousand lbs in towing, for $65k...crazy!! You see everyday guys towing montana high country fifths with 250’s that have a dry pin weight of around 2500lbs. So we will look at “half ton towable” fifths and if im over im over. We only camp 4 times a year at the beach or local lake and its generally flatish here in South Carolina, so im not gonna stess if im over.
 

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It is due to the way "ideal" pin/bumper weights are calculated.

Fifth wheels have an ideal pin weight of 20%. For every pound of load on your truck that is no pin weight you are reducing your trailer weight by 20 lbs. Thus if you have a Platinum reserve with diesel and 4wd like I do...that extra weight.....(I am picking a arbitrary number of 500# for simplicity sake) will reduce my trailer weight by 1000#. (20x500).

For a TT it is 10% tongue weight so it would be a 500# reduction for same truck.

For a gas, 2wd, single cab that weighs much less you can do the math and see why it is rated higher.

Now, is that gas stripped XD gonna tow a given trailer any better or be more capable than a fully loaded Diesel....I don;t think so but that is why the disparity in the tow ratings.

I think I explained this right. It is early and only had one cup of coffee.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If I didn't have kids, I'd be all over that 5th wheel. Install some air bags and be good to go.

This 5th wheel might be just the right fit for us. But I am not sure if I am comfortable with the weights. Though I cant imagine putting 1000lbs let alone 2000lbs in to the vehicle to reach it's GVWR
 

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I'm assuming XD Gas with no major lifts or change to stock tire load range.
With a UVW of 7400 and GVWR of 9400 plus I think you are fine.
The pin weights are always overcalcualted by the MFR in my opinion but you do have to consider the number. My Forest River has a spec 1700 pin weight and it actually is 1575 or so when scaled.
There are a ton of opinions how to look at this and some are right and some are wrong.
Here's my two cents.
1. I make sure that both my truck and trailer are at or below the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) using the two GVWRs of each.
2. I then only worry about not exceeding my Rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or the weight rating of any of the axles.

Pretty easy to do this. Scale your truck at a CAT Scales with a full tank of fuel, you and wife in cab, and anything you might carry in the bed of truck while towing.

Pick a hitch. Then add the hitch weight and the pin weight together.

Add that to the weight off the scale ticket for the rear axle. If you are at or under the Rear GAWR on your door sticker then I call it good to go.

You see alot of folks talk about weights and braking power and stopping. However, they don't start with what the axle is capable of doing according to the MFR. For example my rear GAWR is 4900 lbs. This means Nissan built this axle to carry up to 4900 lbs on top of it's back and the brakes, bearings, and gears are all rated to carry that 4900 lbs (which does include the truck)

Also pin weights are easily adjusted through load management. Throw a 300lbs generator on your RV rear bumper and you just decreased the pin weight some. Load aft of the rear axles instead of primarily forward and you've also decreased pin weight.
I've seen guys use the "safety and weight margin" factors commonly touted, run supposedly "light and smaller trailers" and still exceed their Rear GAWR because they are throwing all the weight to the pin.
Point being, in my opinion, if your truck and trailer are at or below the GCWR and no one axle is over the axle weight rating you are good to go....and you can push right to that limit as the axles are designed to handle it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I'm assuming XD Gas with no major lifts or change to stock tire load range.
With a UVW of 7400 and GVWR of 9400 plus I think you are fine.
The pin weights are always overcalcualted by the MFR in my opinion but you do have to consider the number. My Forest River has a spec 1700 pin weight and it actually is 1575 or so when scaled.
There are a ton of opinions how to look at this and some are right and some are wrong.
Here's my two cents.
1. I make sure that both my truck and trailer are at or below the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) using the two GVWRs of each.
2. I then only worry about not exceeding my Rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or the weight rating of any of the axles.

Pretty easy to do this. Scale your truck at a CAT Scales with a full tank of fuel, you and wife in cab, and anything you might carry in the bed of truck while towing.

Pick a hitch. Then add the hitch weight and the pin weight together.

Add that to the weight off the scale ticket for the rear axle. If you are at or under the Rear GAWR on your door sticker then I call it good to go.

You see alot of folks talk about weights and braking power and stopping. However, they don't start with what the axle is capable of doing according to the MFR. For example my rear GAWR is 4900 lbs. This means Nissan built this axle to carry up to 4900 lbs on top of it's back and the brakes, bearings, and gears are all rated to carry that 4900 lbs (which does include the truck)

Also pin weights are easily adjusted through load management. Throw a 300lbs generator on your RV rear bumper and you just decreased the pin weight some. Load aft of the rear axles instead of primarily forward and you've also decreased pin weight.
I've seen guys use the "safety and weight margin" factors commonly touted, run supposedly "light and smaller trailers" and still exceed their Rear GAWR because they are throwing all the weight to the pin.
Point being, in my opinion, if your truck and trailer are at or below the GCWR and no one axle is over the axle weight rating you are good to go....and you can push right to that limit as the axles are designed to handle it.

Thanks for the info.


The truck is stock for a Pro4X. Tires are factory right now. No modifications except a bed cover and a couple of lite weight things that dont amount to 1lb of weight.



The GVWR for the XD is 8800 and the GVWR for that 5er is 9495. That puts us over by 595lbs on paper with a combined rating limit of 17700lbs. I guess if we move forward with this one we would have to rely on the scales and hope that we can keep the trailer load below 2000lb CCC keeping the total weight down.


If we can somehow keep our payload down in the truck as well we could be golden. But that 1300lbs of pin weight (if its correct) hurts up front initially.


Is the consensus here the payload includes a full tank of gas and a 150lb driver?
 

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I'm assuming XD Gas with no major lifts or change to stock tire load range.
With a UVW of 7400 and GVWR of 9400 plus I think you are fine.
The pin weights are always overcalcualted by the MFR in my opinion but you do have to consider the number. My Forest River has a spec 1700 pin weight and it actually is 1575 or so when scaled.
There are a ton of opinions how to look at this and some are right and some are wrong.
Here's my two cents.
1. I make sure that both my truck and trailer are at or below the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) using the two GVWRs of each.
2. I then only worry about not exceeding my Rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or the weight rating of any of the axles.

Pretty easy to do this. Scale your truck at a CAT Scales with a full tank of fuel, you and wife in cab, and anything you might carry in the bed of truck while towing.

Pick a hitch. Then add the hitch weight and the pin weight together.

Add that to the weight off the scale ticket for the rear axle. If you are at or under the Rear GAWR on your door sticker then I call it good to go.

You see alot of folks talk about weights and braking power and stopping. However, they don't start with what the axle is capable of doing according to the MFR. For example my rear GAWR is 4900 lbs. This means Nissan built this axle to carry up to 4900 lbs on top of it's back and the brakes, bearings, and gears are all rated to carry that 4900 lbs (which does include the truck)

Also pin weights are easily adjusted through load management. Throw a 300lbs generator on your RV rear bumper and you just decreased the pin weight some. Load aft of the rear axles instead of primarily forward and you've also decreased pin weight.
I've seen guys use the "safety and weight margin" factors commonly touted, run supposedly "light and smaller trailers" and still exceed their Rear GAWR because they are throwing all the weight to the pin.
Point being, in my opinion, if your truck and trailer are at or below the GCWR and no one axle is over the axle weight rating you are good to go....and you can push right to that limit as the axles are designed to handle it.

Thanks for the info.


The truck is stock for a Pro4X. Tires are factory right now. No modifications except a bed cover and a couple of lite weight things that dont amount to 1lb of weight.



The GVWR for the XD is 8800 and the GVWR for that 5er is 9495. That puts us over by 595lbs on paper with a combined rating limit of 17700lbs. I guess if we move forward with this one we would have to rely on the scales and hope that we can keep the trailer load below 2000lb CCC keeping the total weight down.


If we can somehow keep our payload down in the truck as well we could be golden. But that 1300lbs of pin weight (if its correct) hurts up front initially.


Is the consensus here the payload includes a full tank of gas and a 150lb driver?
If your only over 595lbs on paper I wouldn’t worry about it, in real life you’ll probably be under. Now if it was 1500lbs over I’d keep looking.
 

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I'm assuming XD Gas with no major lifts or change to stock tire load range.
With a UVW of 7400 and GVWR of 9400 plus I think you are fine.
The pin weights are always overcalcualted by the MFR in my opinion but you do have to consider the number. My Forest River has a spec 1700 pin weight and it actually is 1575 or so when scaled.
There are a ton of opinions how to look at this and some are right and some are wrong.
Here's my two cents.
1. I make sure that both my truck and trailer are at or below the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) using the two GVWRs of each.
2. I then only worry about not exceeding my Rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or the weight rating of any of the axles.

Pretty easy to do this. Scale your truck at a CAT Scales with a full tank of fuel, you and wife in cab, and anything you might carry in the bed of truck while towing.

Pick a hitch. Then add the hitch weight and the pin weight together.

Add that to the weight off the scale ticket for the rear axle. If you are at or under the Rear GAWR on your door sticker then I call it good to go.

You see alot of folks talk about weights and braking power and stopping. However, they don't start with what the axle is capable of doing according to the MFR. For example my rear GAWR is 4900 lbs. This means Nissan built this axle to carry up to 4900 lbs on top of it's back and the brakes, bearings, and gears are all rated to carry that 4900 lbs (which does include the truck)

Also pin weights are easily adjusted through load management. Throw a 300lbs generator on your RV rear bumper and you just decreased the pin weight some. Load aft of the rear axles instead of primarily forward and you've also decreased pin weight.
I've seen guys use the "safety and weight margin" factors commonly touted, run supposedly "light and smaller trailers" and still exceed their Rear GAWR because they are throwing all the weight to the pin.
Point being, in my opinion, if your truck and trailer are at or below the GCWR and no one axle is over the axle weight rating you are good to go....and you can push right to that limit as the axles are designed to handle it.

Thanks for the info.


The truck is stock for a Pro4X. Tires are factory right now. No modifications except a bed cover and a couple of lite weight things that dont amount to 1lb of weight.



The GVWR for the XD is 8800 and the GVWR for that 5er is 9495. That puts us over by 595lbs on paper with a combined rating limit of 17700lbs. I guess if we move forward with this one we would have to rely on the scales and hope that we can keep the trailer load below 2000lb CCC keeping the total weight down.


If we can somehow keep our payload down in the truck as well we could be golden. But that 1300lbs of pin weight (if its correct) hurts up front initially.


Is the consensus here the payload includes a full tank of gas and a 150lb driver?
That's what I've always gone by. Some folks will tell you to add the fuel in the fuel tank because the MFR doesn't calculate for this...I have never seen that proven in writing in the automobile industry and when I went to work for Oshkosh after leaving the service we always calculated fuel load in.
 

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I'm assuming XD Gas with no major lifts or change to stock tire load range.
With a UVW of 7400 and GVWR of 9400 plus I think you are fine.
The pin weights are always overcalcualted by the MFR in my opinion but you do have to consider the number. My Forest River has a spec 1700 pin weight and it actually is 1575 or so when scaled.
There are a ton of opinions how to look at this and some are right and some are wrong.
Here's my two cents.
1. I make sure that both my truck and trailer are at or below the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) using the two GVWRs of each.
2. I then only worry about not exceeding my Rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or the weight rating of any of the axles.

Pretty easy to do this. Scale your truck at a CAT Scales with a full tank of fuel, you and wife in cab, and anything you might carry in the bed of truck while towing.

Pick a hitch. Then add the hitch weight and the pin weight together.

Add that to the weight off the scale ticket for the rear axle. If you are at or under the Rear GAWR on your door sticker then I call it good to go.

You see alot of folks talk about weights and braking power and stopping. However, they don't start with what the axle is capable of doing according to the MFR. For example my rear GAWR is 4900 lbs. This means Nissan built this axle to carry up to 4900 lbs on top of it's back and the brakes, bearings, and gears are all rated to carry that 4900 lbs (which does include the truck)

Also pin weights are easily adjusted through load management. Throw a 300lbs generator on your RV rear bumper and you just decreased the pin weight some. Load aft of the rear axles instead of primarily forward and you've also decreased pin weight.
I've seen guys use the "safety and weight margin" factors commonly touted, run supposedly "light and smaller trailers" and still exceed their Rear GAWR because they are throwing all the weight to the pin.
Point being, in my opinion, if your truck and trailer are at or below the GCWR and no one axle is over the axle weight rating you are good to go....and you can push right to that limit as the axles are designed to handle it.

Thanks for the info.


The truck is stock for a Pro4X. Tires are factory right now. No modifications except a bed cover and a couple of lite weight things that dont amount to 1lb of weight.



The GVWR for the XD is 8800 and the GVWR for that 5er is 9495. That puts us over by 595lbs on paper with a combined rating limit of 17700lbs. I guess if we move forward with this one we would have to rely on the scales and hope that we can keep the trailer load below 2000lb CCC keeping the total weight down.


If we can somehow keep our payload down in the truck as well we could be golden. But that 1300lbs of pin weight (if its correct) hurts up front initially.


Is the consensus here the payload includes a full tank of gas and a 150lb driver?
If your only over 595lbs on paper I wouldn’t worry about it, in real life you’ll probably be under. Now if it was 1500lbs over I’d keep looking.
Well said.
 

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I can’t speak for that exact Grand Design- I have a 2016 XD diesel Pro-4X and am towing the Grand Design 295RL. It lists at a little higher pin weight than the one you listed.

The poster who said pin weights are light on the listings- not necessarily- Grand Design weighs EVERY trailer and includes a pin weight for that trailer with the documentation- mine is actually about 100 pounds heavier- 2nd AC in the front.

We have pulled ours no issue and we are probably in the range of 400 over listed payload for the truck. No issues in the mountains 11-13 MPG. Uses a bit more DEF but not a huge deal. If you go with the Grand Design 150 Series they have a Turning Point hitch- but either way we do not NEED to use a sliding 5th wheel. The truck pulls like a dream. We were at 1400 pin weight (1800 payload). Haven’t put it on a CAT scale but I pulled through downtown Atlanta at rush hour and had no pucker factor at all.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I can’t speak for that exact Grand Design- I have a 2016 XD diesel Pro-4X and am towing the Grand Design 295RL. It lists at a little higher pin weight than the one you listed.

The poster who said pin weights are light on the listings- not necessarily- Grand Design weighs EVERY trailer and includes a pin weight for that trailer with the documentation- mine is actually about 100 pounds heavier- 2nd AC in the front.

We have pulled ours no issue and we are probably in the range of 400 over listed payload for the truck. No issues in the mountains 11-13 MPG. Uses a bit more DEF but not a huge deal. If you go with the Grand Design 150 Series they have a Turning Point hitch- but either way we do not NEED to use a sliding 5th wheel. The truck pulls like a dream. We were at 1400 pin weight (1800 payload). Haven’t put it on a CAT scale but I pulled through downtown Atlanta at rush hour and had no pucker factor at all.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. We were considering the 295rL and the 29RS? I like the 295RL a lot but the weight and PRICE scared me away. LOL



Are you happy with the GD 150 series overall? Fit and finish etc.
 

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Thank you. We were considering the 295rL and the 29RS? I like the 295RL a lot but the weight and PRICE scared me away. LOL



Are you happy with the GD 150 series overall? Fit and finish etc.


We went to Grand Design from Jayco- the fit and finish is far above what we had in either of our Jayco’s- will never leave GD. The 150 Series is great- we’ve done a few minor mods- no repairs yet (its a 2019). We got it down about 25% and they threw in the hitch. I think it was right around $42k with the 2nd AC. I have nothing bad to say about them or the company we bought from- so much different than dealing with Camping World.

You can’t go wrong.
 

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Thank you. We were considering the 295rL and the 29RS? I like the 295RL a lot but the weight and PRICE scared me away. LOL



Are you happy with the GD 150 series overall? Fit and finish etc.


We went to Grand Design from Jayco- the fit and finish is far above what we had in either of our Jayco’s- will never leave GD. The 150 Series is great- we’ve done a few minor mods- no repairs yet (its a 2019). We got it down about 25% and they threw in the hitch. I think it was right around $42k with the 2nd AC. I have nothing bad to say about them or the company we bought from- so much different than dealing with Camping World.

You can’t go wrong.
Sounds like we are all in agreement and he needs that Grand Design....now...if we can all just get a commission from the dealer he's buying from???....good camping and safe travels.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
We went to Grand Design from Jayco- the fit and finish is far above what we had in either of our Jayco’s- will never leave GD. The 150 Series is great- we’ve done a few minor mods- no repairs yet (its a 2019). We got it down about 25% and they threw in the hitch. I think it was right around $42k with the 2nd AC. I have nothing bad to say about them or the company we bought from- so much different than dealing with Camping World.

You can’t go wrong.



I got a quote without tax for $39k but I don't think it had the second A/C unit. Glad to hear you are happy so far. Our Jayco, we bought used and it was not well cared for until we got it. It's going on 10 years old and I have had to make some minor repairs.


Unless we see something else it's between the grand design and the rockwoods.
 

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We went to Grand Design from Jayco- the fit and finish is far above what we had in either of our Jayco’s- will never leave GD. The 150 Series is great- we’ve done a few minor mods- no repairs yet (its a 2019). We got it down about 25% and they threw in the hitch. I think it was right around $42k with the 2nd AC. I have nothing bad to say about them or the company we bought from- so much different than dealing with Camping World.

You can’t go wrong.



I got a quote without tax for $39k but I don't think it had the second A/C unit. Glad to hear you are happy so far. Our Jayco, we bought used and it was not well cared for until we got it. It's going on 10 years old and I have had to make some minor repairs.


Unless we see something else it's between the grand design and the rockwoods.
Get....the...second...AC??..it'll be the best 1000.00 (if dealer does it) bucks you ever spent and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. There is no sane argument??for not getting the second AC.
 

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We camp mostly in Georgia, South Carolina and want to go to Florida- just because we live in Savannah. The 2nd AC is a must around here. We looked at Rookwood- quality wasn’t as good and the features were much better in the 150 Series.
 

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We camp mostly in Georgia, South Carolina and want to go to Florida- just because we live in Savannah. The 2nd AC is a must around here. We looked at Rookwood- quality wasn’t as good and the features were much better in the 150 Series.
Ever been to the lake system in upstate SC? Pretty good camping here on Lakes Hartwell or Keowee...
 
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Well, my plan was to get a 50amp setup with wiring for the 2nd A/C and see how we do without it first (weight and cost).


Rockwood vs. GD. Wife and I are weighing the pros and cons of each one.


For instance, rockwood has solid surfaces vs. plastic over PB in the GD 150 series. Rockwood model has the electronic stabilizing jacks vs. maual crank jacks on the GD. Rockwood has nicer shower enclosure instead of the plastic shade door stuff (I really am not a fan)



GD has much better insulation vs rockwood. GD does not have a front windshield, the rockwood does. I see this as being a possible big problem and have read of people having problems with them already. GD is more spacious then the rockwood.


There are more items on both sides of the ledger but you get the gist of it.
 
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