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Discussion Starter #1
I wonder if this is what they're up to. Its hard to change consumer perceptions and allegiances, especially in the pickup market, but its very easy to change industries mind. Cost and content.

IF, big IF mind you, Nissan can come in with better content (read capability actually) and a friendlier business cost to industry I don't see how the big 3 can stop the Titan from gobbling up fleet customers. Cummins reliability is a useful sign to these companies, at least part of the new offer is familiar to them...
 

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This is actually a very good point, along with the Titan getting a diesel engine, the other changes do help to connect the dots to this idea, something I can see happening, something which they should do. It would be a shame if they don't
 

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Potentially yes, but Nissan tried this with the NV family of vans and it hasnt worked out yet. They dont have a large enough dealer network to be viable IMO...
 

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I don't really think that Nissan's dealer network will be the problem. They have a pretty large network in the US. Nissan could be going for this strategy, but I think it will be hard to pull off. I guess it all depends on the specs that we get eventually. If it is more capable it will surely draw some buyers.
 

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Large compared to who?

Nissan has about ~1500 US locations (less actually), Ford ~ 5,000 dealers, Chevrolet ~4,000...
 

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Hmm... I just figured that Nissan would have the dealer network in the US to support whatever they want to do . Remember that Nissan isn't planning on outselling Ford or GM. They don't need to do this in order to see what success is to them. If they make a more capable truck, I think that people will seek it out even if there are less dealers around.
 

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You're making plenty of unfounded assumptions. For one, brand, pickups are bought on brand above all, why do you think people buy Powerstroke Fords when they should know better?

Two, its not about capability except for a small subset of the population. Nissan dealers are concentrated in urban areas which is great but they cater to a fuel efficient mindset, a 5.0L v8 Diesel is not exactly a frugal motor. The guys who do demand capability live in the rural areas that the Big 3 service almost exclusively...
 

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Large compared to who?

Nissan has about ~1500 US locations (less actually), Ford ~ 5,000 dealers, Chevrolet ~4,000...
Wow, didn't realized Nissan had only that many locations, but it does make sense as I don't recall seeing as many Nissan dealers as I do with GM dealers.

How old are those dealer stats?
 

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You're making plenty of unfounded assumptions. For one, brand, pickups are bought on brand above all, why do you think people buy Powerstroke Fords when they should know better?

Two, its not about capability except for a small subset of the population. Nissan dealers are concentrated in urban areas which is great but they cater to a fuel efficient mindset, a 5.0L v8 Diesel is not exactly a frugal motor. The guys who do demand capability live in the rural areas that the Big 3 service almost exclusively...
Yeah it's going to be tough to market to those folks that live in the rural area's, not sure how well that's going to go but maybe Nissan will have better chances in the urban area's with this.
 

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Yeah it's going to be tough to market to those folks that live in the rural area's, not sure how well that's going to go but maybe Nissan will have better chances in the urban area's with this.
what do you need 550+ ft-lbs of diesel torque for in an urban environment?
 

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You're making plenty of unfounded assumptions. For one, brand, pickups are bought on brand above all, why do you think people buy Powerstroke Fords when they should know better?

Two, its not about capability except for a small subset of the population. Nissan dealers are concentrated in urban areas which is great but they cater to a fuel efficient mindset, a 5.0L v8 Diesel is not exactly a frugal motor. The guys who do demand capability live in the rural areas that the Big 3 service almost exclusively...
Having worked with and on the 7.3L, 6.0L and 6.4L Powerstrokes, they are actually really well engineered engines. The 7.3L is in my opinion one of the best engines put into a work truck. It doesn't have too much power, it has plenty of torque and has a reputation of being a long lasting engine when maintained properly.

The 6.0L diesel is one of the most enjoyable engines I have ever driven. It is slow to respond but makes all the right noises and pulls hard under boost. Properly maintained the 6.0L will last a long time. The biggest flaw with this engine was emissions equipment and inadequate maintenance. Unmistakable, unique exhaust note that sends shivers down my spine.

The 6.4L pulled harder in lower rpms but really ran out of steam near redline, it was not as enjoyable to drive. I was never inside a 6.4L, but from what I've seen it shares the design logic of the 6.0L.

I found the 6.6L Duramax to drive very much like what I think the 7.3L PSD would feel like if it were modernized. I find myself frequently mistaking the exhaust note of duramax trucks for 7.3Ls.

The 5.9L Cummins, at least the old mechanical ones are a riot to drive. Never had to do more than maintenance work to mine, didn't give me a reason to go deeper than taking the timing cover off for the killer dowel pin fix.

The ISV is going up against a history of proven diesel V8's, in a pickup with something to prove. My bet is the new Titan is going to be a rocket ship with the most refined diesel engine ever offered in a pickup truck.
 

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what do you need 550+ ft-lbs of diesel torque for in an urban environment?
The ISV is likely going to come in somewhere around the output of the 6.0L powerstroke, which was 325hp and 560ft.lbs.

In a F550, with trailer with a total combined weight of 14,000lbs this configuration was enough to maintain 110km/h climbing in the Rocky Mountains. It also meant in the city the truck had the power to keep up with traffic.

Considering how much the GVW of pickups has gone up, I imagine there will be Titans pulling a combined weight exceeding 14,000lbs and will appreciate the torque their ISV makes.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The ISV is likely going to come in somewhere around the output of the 6.0L powerstroke, which was 325hp and 560ft.lbs.

In a F550, with trailer with a total combined weight of 14,000lbs this configuration was enough to maintain 110km/h climbing in the Rocky Mountains. It also meant in the city the truck had the power to keep up with traffic.

Considering how much the GVW of pickups has gone up, I imagine there will be Titans pulling a combined weight exceeding 14,000lbs and will appreciate the torque their ISV makes.
and a half ton frame will never support that...
 

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and a half ton frame will never support that...
The existing frame will handle the job. They will likely beef it up a bit, but the frame work will be able to take far more twist than the rest of the components.

It's more likely there will be diesel specific axles and transmission.
 

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The existing frame will handle the job. They will likely beef it up a bit, but the frame work will be able to take far more twist than the rest of the components.

It's more likely there will be diesel specific axles and transmission.
I just hope what ever beefing up they do will put it up to par with what other trucks in it's segment will have to offer, instead of just falling right behind.
 

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Yeah it's going to be tough to market to those folks that live in the rural area's, not sure how well that's going to go but maybe Nissan will have better chances in the urban area's with this.
I can't imagine alot of urban dwellers needing this truck. For the weekend warriors bulling a large boat or camper, the Ecoboost would probably be more practical in the city. These trucks are designed for tough jobs day after day.
 

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The Titan XD is a serious shot across the bow of the big three and they haven't realized it yet.

If Nissan can keep their pencil sharp the Titan XD diesel could be a huge fleet seller. Lost of construction companies that buy 1500 and 2500 by the hundreds. The 2500s are heavy duty enough that they stay in service for quite a while. The majority are 1500's and they get beat pretty hard. The Titan XD is the right size for a fleet truck, with an engine from a manufacture with huge fleet backing. The Titan appears to be designed to be driven by the lowest common denominator who doesn't own the truck and doesn't care about it. Brilliant, because if the Titan can survive dough-heads, the brass will buy Platinums for themselves.

If the Titan XD pricing stays right around the current Titan pricing, they're going to do excellent in fleet sales. Especially with the reputation the NV2500/NV3500 vans are building.
 

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I have heard great things about the NV2500/NV3500 series commercial vans. I know quite a few people aren't too thrilled with the look of the pre-production Titan XD, but I think Nissan is gauging our reaction and will most likely tweak it before the become available.

I agree. I think they could change up the fleet market. I am really looking forward to see if they make any changes by the end of the year.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The Titan XD is a serious shot across the bow of the big three and they haven't realized it yet.

If Nissan can keep their pencil sharp the Titan XD diesel could be a huge fleet seller. Lost of construction companies that buy 1500 and 2500 by the hundreds. The 2500s are heavy duty enough that they stay in service for quite a while. The majority are 1500's and they get beat pretty hard. The Titan XD is the right size for a fleet truck, with an engine from a manufacture with huge fleet backing. The Titan appears to be designed to be driven by the lowest common denominator who doesn't own the truck and doesn't care about it. Brilliant, because if the Titan can survive dough-heads, the brass will buy Platinums for themselves.

If the Titan XD pricing stays right around the current Titan pricing, they're going to do excellent in fleet sales. Especially with the reputation the NV2500/NV3500 vans are building.
Where Nissan has the potential to go wrong is by over specing the ISV. RAM did it last year, you couldnt get into a diesel if it wasnt in the top trim. Sure it maximizes margins but it leaves the guys who rely and desire your products in the lurch.

If Nissan is smart, stripper fleet XD's will be available from the outset...
 
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