[Forge]

Nissan is ambitious, and we have to applaud them for that. Japanese brands have been quite successful with efficient smaller size cars; think about the Civic, the Camry and the Altima. But with gas prices low and SUVs and CUVs getting more and more popular, the Japanese know that they have to try to compete in these categories.

“We’re looking for 5 percent share of the full-sized pickup truck segment,” Nissan North America Chairman Jose Munoz said at the Detroit auto show this week, citing a figure that dwarfs Nissan’s roughly 0.6 percent market share of the full-sized pickup segment last year.

As much as I wish Nissan success, I am not holding my breath for this one.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autoshow-detroit-pickup-idUSKCN0US0J020160114

 

[NavyCuda]

I really beleive they have a good chance. It all depends on how well the XD holds up to the tuners.

 

[MoparProud]

Not gonna happen.

 

[NavyCuda]

Not gonna happen.

You need to have a goal before it can be achieved.

 

[honda250xtitan]

depends on the non xd titan. also the v6 motor.


completely new frontier with optional diesel would help too.

 

[redtitan29]

Why do you say its not going to happen? We have only seen the Crew Cab XD. The King cab, single cab, V6 & V8, along with the regular 1/2 ton Titan and all its configurations should absolutely allow Nissan to reach their goal. The XD isn't for everyone and Nissan has said that from the beginning. What they have shown is that there more then capable of putting out a quality pickup. The other truck makers need to watch out if the 1/2 ton Titan is anywhere near the quality of the XD.

 

[MoparProud]

Because it's not. Titan sold what, just over 11,000 trucks last year? Compared to....300,000 for Ram roughly, and more than that for Ford and GM. That's laughable!

Yes, Titan will almost certainly sell more strictly based off the diesel and tied to them actually having a decently appointed truck finally. But they aren't making a massive influx.

And the rest of the market simply isn't concerned about the Titan; remember the Titan has over a decade of "meh" attached to the name and people will absolutely attribute that record to the new models. Ram isn't worried about the 1/2 ton Titan, GM isn't worried about the 1/2 ton Titan, Ford isn't worried about the 1/2 ton Titan. There's just nothing there to draw a large number of buyers.

I look and see nothing to be had with the Titan that isn't in other trucks. Save the ISV, and even then you can get bigger established engines from other manufacturers in similar, more capable trucks. Compared to the other trucks on the market, there isn't anything drastic to be had; however compared to the outgoing Titan it's night and day difference. But the other trucks have been at this level for half a decade already.....


I tried to find numbers, and the only ones I see are from the Wall Street Journal and they are claiming outrageous numbers for Nissan and Honda (770,xxx light trucks for Honda!) so not sure what all is included in that; minivans and such perhaps?

 

[redtitan29]

The Titan sold strong when it first released. The outgoing Titan was long in the tooth as they were caught off guard by Chrysler backing out of their contract during the financial down turn. Had this not happened, we would have seen a refreshed Titan long before now. It puzzles me to hear you say Nissan has nothing to offer over the other tuck makers. The XD has a lot to offer over the other 1/2 ton trucks. We know zero about Nissans revamped 1/2 ton so until we do how can a statement like that be made?

As far as Ram, do you realize how many folks say they love the Cummins engine but hate the truck wrapped around it. I was a Dodge owner for many years prior to switching to Nissan and theres simply no comparison between the two. Dodge has come a long way but they still are cutting corners in areas they shouldn't. There was once a day when Ford and GM weren't concerned about the Ram 1/2 ton. Do still believe they think the same way today?

 

[MoparProud]

Other than the diesel, what exactly does the XD have over the other 1/2 ton pickups? Not much. Let's look at the numbers...

I'll go with crew cab 4x4 models, as XD is currently only available as crew. Max towing configurations.

Towing:
GM 1500: 10,800 lbs (5.3), 11,700 lbs (6.2)
Ford F150: 10,900 lbs (5.0 V8), 11,500 lbs (3.5 EcoBoost V6)
Ram 1500: 8,390 lbs (3.0 EcoDiesel V6), 10,100 lbs (5.7 V8)
Toyota Tundra: 9,500 lbs (5.7 V8)
Titan XD: 10,608-12,038 lbs

Payload:
GM 1500: 2,010 lbs (6.2 V8)
Ford F150: 1,957 lbs (5.0 V8), 1,960 (3.5 EcoBoost V6)
Ram 1500: 1,270 lbs (3.0 EcoDiesel V6), 1,520 (5.7 V8)
Toyota Tundra: 1,555 lbs (5.7 V8)
Titan XD: 1,061-1,204 lbs

The numbers say otherwise.....

Shall we look at base prices? Let's see what they range, low to high (note, I merely selected crew cab, 4x4. Didn't select engines or options):

GM 1500 (Chevy): $39,690-54,010
Ford F150: $38,213-56,121
Ram 1500: $37,150-56,200
Toyota Tundra: $31,660-47,975
Titan XD: $43,290-60,520

So, we can see the Titan has significantly less payload than do most other 1/2 ton pickups, and in the same ballpark range for towing as most others. All for a higher entry price and tops out several thousand higher as well. So much for that 'tweener status, it's a 1/2 ton. I mean, the XD has the same numbers as others, what's the regular 1/2 ton going to look like? Logic says it's going to pale in comparison, since the XD is supposed to be bigger, heavier duty, and more capable than the non-XD Titan.

Ok, well the diesel should offer significant mileage increases, yeah? Nope, SOL there too. It's in the same ballpark as everyone else's gassers are, and doesn't even come close to sniffing the EcoDiesel.

Hmm, well at least it's got the interior and the looks! Well....it's right in line with every other option out there as well interior wise and exterior...(both are highly subjective)

I see nothing, NOTHING, the XD has over the other well-established trucks on the market place. Less payload, same towing capacity, higher cost.

 

[MoparProud]

Note that I'm not trying to knock the XD, I'm not trying to stand up for the old reliable trucks on the market, I'm not trying to say the XD brings nothing to the table.

I'm saying there simply lacks a big reason to go XD, unless you simply want the diesel option. The EcoDiesel sucks, it's got awful payload and towing capacities, but kills everything in mileage. As such, I do NOT see Titan picking up a whole bunch of market share. Yes, it'll get some, but it's just not a drastic shift in trucks. If you think it's going to steal sales from equally-capable trucks when owners of those trucks look to upgrade to a new unit, it's not likely to happen. Folks often buy what they have again, unless they had a bad experience.

 

[BigRedcustoms]

Other than the diesel, what exactly does the XD have over the other 1/2 ton pickups? Not much. Let's look at the numbers...

I'll go with crew cab 4x4 models, as XD is currently only available as crew. Max towing configurations.

Towing:
GM 1500: 10,800 lbs (5.3), 11,700 lbs (6.2)
Ford F150: 10,900 lbs (5.0 V8), 11,500 lbs (3.5 EcoBoost V6)
Ram 1500: 8,390 lbs (3.0 EcoDiesel V6), 10,100 lbs (5.7 V8)
Toyota Tundra: 9,500 lbs (5.7 V8)
Titan XD: 10,608-12,038 lbs

Payload:
GM 1500: 2,010 lbs (6.2 V8)
Ford F150: 1,957 lbs (5.0 V8), 1,960 (3.5 EcoBoost V6)
Ram 1500: 1,270 lbs (3.0 EcoDiesel V6), 1,520 (5.7 V8)
Toyota Tundra: 1,555 lbs (5.7 V8)
Titan XD: 1,061-1,204 lbs

The numbers say otherwise.....

Shall we look at base prices? Let's see what they range, low to high (note, I merely selected crew cab, 4x4. Didn't select engines or options):

GM 1500 (Chevy): $39,690-54,010
Ford F150: $38,213-56,121
Ram 1500: $37,150-56,200
Toyota Tundra: $31,660-47,975
Titan XD: $43,290-60,520

So, we can see the Titan has significantly less payload than do most other 1/2 ton pickups, and in the same ballpark range for towing as most others. All for a higher entry price and tops out several thousand higher as well. So much for that 'tweener status, it's a 1/2 ton. I mean, the XD has the same numbers as others, what's the regular 1/2 ton going to look like? Logic says it's going to pale in comparison, since the XD is supposed to be bigger, heavier duty, and more capable than the non-XD Titan.

Ok, well the diesel should offer significant mileage increases, yeah? Nope, SOL there too. It's in the same ballpark as everyone else's gassers are, and doesn't even come close to sniffing the EcoDiesel.

Hmm, well at least it's got the interior and the looks! Well....it's right in line with every other option out there as well interior wise and exterior...(both are highly subjective)

I see nothing, NOTHING, the XD has over the other well-established trucks on the market place. Less payload, same towing capacity, higher cost.

Not to split hairs, The payload for the heaviest config, the PR 4x4 CC is 1510lbs (8990 gvwr - 7480 curb), so not horrible, but I agree those numbers should be higher. Again for the price of bagging it, not worried, especially given the components used and gauge of steel I think it offers plenty in regards to longevity, yes it's a heavy pig, but heavy in the right spots. Even a bit excited to slip a muncie or parker PTO kit to that as69rc under there, and slap on a 12kw generator head for utility. I'm not buying this truck to rival the big 3's numbers, because my experience tells me that this truck will move it better at its max, and some of the winds I hit on interstate, I don't want the tail wagging the dog The axles are heavier, the trans is heavier, the engine has much potential, and frame is built like a brick s*** house. Don't give me the fancy electro-crap, give me a well built truck with beefy powertrain and good brakes and I'm happy. Yes you can get a 2500 for a few bucks more, but the utilitrack bed, lighting, the interior layout, the engine and trans checks all the boxes for me. Don't get me wrong, I clearly like creature comforts, but if I had to choose one area that matters for the long haul, it's what's under the sheetmetal. Sans for the standard titan's axle snafu, their trucks are pretty solid performers. I currently drive chevy, and variety of Ford toys, one 86 ranger with the heart of a fox body, and for work, a fleet of various 12v and 24v oil burners. They all have their quarks, but have done the deed. Looking for something new and different that I'll keep till it's time to rebuild

 

[Frost]

Other than the diesel, what exactly does the XD have over the other 1/2 ton pickups? Not much. Let's look at the numbers...

I'll go with crew cab 4x4 models, as XD is currently only available as crew. Max towing configurations.

Towing:
GM 1500: 10,800 lbs (5.3), 11,700 lbs (6.2)
Ford F150: 10,900 lbs (5.0 V8), 11,500 lbs (3.5 EcoBoost V6)
Ram 1500: 8,390 lbs (3.0 EcoDiesel V6), 10,100 lbs (5.7 V8)
Toyota Tundra: 9,500 lbs (5.7 V8)
Titan XD: 10,608-12,038 lbs

Payload:
GM 1500: 2,010 lbs (6.2 V8)
Ford F150: 1,957 lbs (5.0 V8), 1,960 (3.5 EcoBoost V6)
Ram 1500: 1,270 lbs (3.0 EcoDiesel V6), 1,520 (5.7 V8)
Toyota Tundra: 1,555 lbs (5.7 V8)
Titan XD: 1,061-1,204 lbs

The numbers say otherwise.....

Shall we look at base prices? Let's see what they range, low to high (note, I merely selected crew cab, 4x4. Didn't select engines or options):

GM 1500 (Chevy): $39,690-54,010
Ford F150: $38,213-56,121
Ram 1500: $37,150-56,200
Toyota Tundra: $31,660-47,975
Titan XD: $43,290-60,520

So, we can see the Titan has significantly less payload than do most other 1/2 ton pickups, and in the same ballpark range for towing as most others. All for a higher entry price and tops out several thousand higher as well. So much for that 'tweener status, it's a 1/2 ton. I mean, the XD has the same numbers as others, what's the regular 1/2 ton going to look like? Logic says it's going to pale in comparison, since the XD is supposed to be bigger, heavier duty, and more capable than the non-XD Titan.

Ok, well the diesel should offer significant mileage increases, yeah? Nope, SOL there too. It's in the same ballpark as everyone else's gassers are, and doesn't even come close to sniffing the EcoDiesel.

Hmm, well at least it's got the interior and the looks! Well....it's right in line with every other option out there as well interior wise and exterior...(both are highly subjective)

I see nothing, NOTHING, the XD has over the other well-established trucks on the market place. Less payload, same towing capacity, higher cost.

I agree. I thought the XD would have significantly more payload than that.

But now I'm beginning to question cummins' effort in this engine. Did they do enough to make this engine modern, efficient, and consumer ready. Why is the XD horsepower per liter (hp/l) not an advantage for this relatively small modern v8 diesel engine design?

The 5L XD has 60 hp/L (modern v8 engine design).
The 6.6L Dmax is 60.1 hp/L (base engine is 15 years old, much larger displacement).
The 6.7L PSD is 65.7 hp/L. (relatively new, much larger displacement)
The 3L ecodiesel has 80 hp/l. (smaller but relatively new v6 engine design)

Maybe the XD's lack of efficiency drove a lower hp/L spec? Is the 5L cummins hamstrung with a less efficient industrial engine design?

Note I didn't include the 2016 I6 cummins' hp/l (57.5) since it's not a v8.

 

[Forge]

Do you think that the price of the Titan in practice ends up lower with various incentives taken into account?

 

[atc]

Not in ontario
Finance special rate is 3.99 and $1650 finance rebate taken off.
But your almost better to take the $3000 cash buy rebate and go with bank finance 4.59% to 4.99%.
But none of that compares as I stated before right now I can get a more capable F250 xlt super duty for $10,000 cheaper the titan xd even with the xd's cash rebate. And still get the same 4.59%-4.99% on the super duty

 

[MoparProud]

Not to split hairs, The payload for the heaviest config, the PR 4x4 CC is 1510lbs (8990 gvwr - 7480 curb), so not horrible, but I agree those numbers should be higher.

I didn't crunch any numbers, merely did quick searches to the manufacturers' numbers and quickly scanned for the maximums. It's possible I may have misread something.

Note that the Titan info isn't as easily found as other manufacturer's are.

Did you get one BigRed?

I agree. I thought the XD would have significantly more payload than that.

But now I'm beginning to question cummins' effort in this engine. Did they do enough to make this engine modern, efficient, and consumer ready. Why is the XD horsepower per liter (hp/l) not an advantage for this relatively small modern v8 diesel engine design?

The 5L XD has 60 hp/L (modern v8 engine design).
The 6.6L Dmax is 60.1 hp/L (base engine is 15 years old, much larger displacement).
The 6.7L PSD is 65.7 hp/L. (relatively new, much larger displacement)
The 3L ecodiesel has 80 hp/l. (smaller but relatively new v6 engine design)

Maybe the XD's lack of efficiency drove a lower hp/L spec? Is the 5L cummins hamstrung with a less efficient industrial engine design?

Note I didn't include the 2016 I6 cummins' hp/l (57.5) since it's not a v8.

I don't know that the engine is an issue, although I may be misreading what you're thinking.

The engine is arguably the most "advanced" engine on the market, in terms of its physical parts, namely dual overhead cams and compound turbos. Although that's fairly open, one could say the 6.7PS is with its backwards flow through the heads....

But any way, I don't know why the power ratings are what they are. I'm disappointed in them because I KNOW there's more locked up in it. I can't accept that emissions played the key role in the final numbers, because look at the other ones; they are much higher than they were when they were released.

Now, since the XD doesn't have any "direct" competitors (although, the numbers appear to say differently; they indicate the F150 and GM 1500's are direct competitors) there wouldn't appear to be any real benefit to sandbagging the ratings only to up them in the next year or two. Of course they can't tune it to the maximum either, but 310/555 is a disappointment (mostly disappointed on the horsepower, the torque is ballpark-ish enough). I figured a SOLID 350hp though, and closer to 600trq would have been nice.

Then again I have to realize it's merely a 1/2 ton pickup....

The engine is plenty capable of producing power I think, and on paper at least should be efficient, maybe the supposed heavier duty frame on the XD added weight that kept mileage numbers from reaching north of 20 consistently (the EcoDiesel pretty consistently gets 29-31 it appears, and that's pretty dang good)


Now, has Nissan ever called the XD a "between" (or 'tweener) pickup, between 1/2 and 3/4 ton, or just the media? I don't recall. Because if Nissan did, they clearly failed.

This XD is an odd one for me, I just can't decide what side of the fence I land on. Have to remember I'm pretty much a die-hard Dodge guy and can get anything I want to do anything I want. But the XD...I'm disappointed in many ways, but I just can't help but be intrigued! The Cummins and the interior are huge bonus points, the capacity (payload and towing) are the real disappointments, followed by power, with mileage seeming to be another, although to a lesser degree (without any end-user numbers to evaluate).

 

[Frost]

I don't know that the engine is an issue, although I may be misreading what you're thinking.

The engine is arguably the most "advanced" engine on the market, in terms of its physical parts, namely dual overhead cams and compound turbos. Although that's fairly open, one could say the 6.7PS is with its backwards flow through the heads....

But any way, I don't know why the power ratings are what they are. I'm disappointed in them because I KNOW there's more locked up in it. I can't accept that emissions played the key role in the final numbers, because look at the other ones; they are much higher than they were when they were released.

Now, since the XD doesn't have any "direct" competitors (although, the numbers appear to say differently; they indicate the F150 and GM 1500's are direct competitors) there wouldn't appear to be any real benefit to sandbagging the ratings only to up them in the next year or two. Of course they can't tune it to the maximum either, but 310/555 is a disappointment (mostly disappointed on the horsepower, the torque is ballpark-ish enough). I figured a SOLID 350hp though, and closer to 600trq would have been nice.

Then again I have to realize it's merely a 1/2 ton pickup....

The engine is plenty capable of producing power I think, and on paper at least should be efficient, maybe the supposed heavier duty frame on the XD added weight that kept mileage numbers from reaching north of 20 consistently (the EcoDiesel pretty consistently gets 29-31 it appears, and that's pretty dang good)


Now, has Nissan ever called the XD a "between" (or 'tweener) pickup, between 1/2 and 3/4 ton, or just the media? I don't recall. Because if Nissan did, they clearly failed.

This XD is an odd one for me, I just can't decide what side of the fence I land on. Have to remember I'm pretty much a die-hard Dodge guy and can get anything I want to do anything I want. But the XD...I'm disappointed in many ways, but I just can't help but be intrigued! The Cummins and the interior are huge bonus points, the capacity (payload and towing) are the real disappointments, followed by power, with mileage seeming to be another, although to a lesser degree (without any end-user numbers to evaluate).

I'm sure there were business reasons too but I recall early-on Ram declined on the 5L Cummins based on poor fuel economy. I originally assumed it was related to the larger displacement engine but the way things are going now it might be more than that.

 

[BigRedcustoms]

I agree. I thought the XD would have significantly more payload than that.

But now I'm beginning to question cummins' effort in this engine. Did they do enough to make this engine modern, efficient, and consumer ready. Why is the XD horsepower per liter (hp/l) not an advantage for this relatively small modern v8 diesel engine design?

The 5L XD has 60 hp/L (modern v8 engine design).
The 6.6L Dmax is 60.1 hp/L (base engine is 15 years old, much larger displacement).
The 6.7L PSD is 65.7 hp/L. (relatively new, much larger displacement)
The 3L ecodiesel has 80 hp/l. (smaller but relatively new v6 engine design)

Maybe the XD's lack of efficiency drove a lower hp/L spec? Is the 5L cummins hamstrung with a less efficient industrial engine design?

Note I didn't include the 2016 I6 cummins' hp/l (57.5) since it's not a v8.

Nothing in my stable as of yet from Nissan. Looking more toward summer...need to build a new pole barn to house the toys

I think efficiency wise this motor has a lot more to offer and is well built. I think nissan/cummins missed the potential of this engine by crippling it. Could it be because of emissions?...possible...maybe they had to meet a target. Personally, I love this engine. Being it's an oversquare engine, you get a few benefits like larger valves in the head (less pumping losses), lower rotating parasitic losses with reduced piston travel during each engine rotation, and lower crank stress because you end up with lower peak piston speed relative to engine speed. From a cooling stand point, you have increased piston and head surface area to wick away heat more effectively from the crown of the piston and around the valves getting it to where it needs to go. Plus the bonus of higher engine speeds....so a tuner's dream in a basket.

So do I think that this engine is poorly designed and can't be fuel efficient, heck no...all the players are there, they just need time to dial it in, that's my honest opinion. Your basically combining algorithms in software to effectively combine two compressor maps into one and perform across the board in all conditions, not an easy feat. Again I think that they will update the ECM in the future. If they don't find a way to better the mileage at least in the consistent 20's, I agree they will have a hard time finding homes for these trucks. For my use, I only have 5yrs, I will start finding out how it ticks a piece at a time, and maybe sooner than that if I can find a way to hide the seed number from the dealer. I'm not looking to roll coal, unless you like throwing away fuel for the sake of EGT's and bragging rights, I just want to customize the performance to my expectations. Maybe even see how far I can go with the emissions systems intact. Scary I know:hope: