[dana44]

Ever since the 5.6l v8 and 4.2l v6 stories of years gone by I've been excited about owning a vehicle with this engine.

But now that it is close I feel like it is a decade late. Am I missing something?

The first thing is the power is meh. Sure 310 is alright, but when a base 3.6l naturally aspirated pentastar is 305 and ford has the 2.7l ecoboost w/ 325 or the NA 5.0 with 385 there is no excitement to be had looking at something with "just" 310/555.

Somebody will probably point out that is gas. What if we scale up the ram's 3.0 diesel to be a 5.0? Its 240/420 would be 400/700! The Ford Powerstroke 6.7 in the super duty would scale down to 330/640 and those are definitely work trucks. Most of all if we scale up the 2.8l cummins that nissan tested its 210/385 goes to 375/690! It's hard to get excited about a new engine when it is potentially the lowest power per litre on the market. Unless it has some trade offs to justify that?

Cummins engines have a reputation for running longer than the RAM truck they've been stuffed in. Maybe the power is "down" per liter because it will also last for hundreds of thousands of miles more than others? If I've read the warranty information correctly, no, these are just regular light duty engines. Cummins gives the 5.0l isb a 100,000 mile warranty while the famous 6.7l isv also 300,000 miles for major components. I don't need 300,000 miles, but it is nice to know when buying a RAM that this is the kind of stuff it was designed for, that you should get more out of this than other brands. For this cummins it seems like it is merely on par with the competition.

I currently drive a cummins and am due to replace the vehicle in the near future and I don't need 900lb/ft. I was excited about the Titan XD, but the more I look into it the more I find myself asking "is that all?" Where is the thing it is best at you can fall in love with?

 

[brulaz]

As for the gas, the new 5.6L v8 is reported to have more than 400 HP and torque. More like what's in the QX80 or better. But it's all speculation for now.

As for the Cummins:
Power per litre doesn't interest me.
Torque and HP does, weight and mileage does.
The truck's capabilities (payload and tow capacity) does.
Price does.

The Cummins 5L in the Titan XD will have about the right amounts of HP and Torque I need (more than the Ecodiesel, less than the big boys), will get better mileage than the big boys, will be in a capable truck with good payload and tow capacity. Dunno about the price though.

Compared with the RAM Cummins 6.7L, the 5L is definitely more light duty. It's also 450 lbs lighter and quieter. And maybe quicker with the new turbo setup. A better fit to a "heavy-half" pickup IMHO.

You gotta decide what you want. A big, lumbering, heavy duty pickup or the Titan XD with the Cummins.

 

[M1lkman]

Ever since the 5.6l v8 and 4.2l v6 stories of years gone by I've been excited about owning a vehicle with this engine.

But now that it is close I feel like it is a decade late. Am I missing something?

The first thing is the power is meh. Sure 310 is alright, but when a base 3.6l naturally aspirated pentastar is 305 and ford has the 2.7l ecoboost w/ 325 or the NA 5.0 with 385 there is no excitement to be had looking at something with "just" 310/555.

Somebody will probably point out that is gas. What if we scale up the ram's 3.0 diesel to be a 5.0? Its 240/420 would be 400/700! The Ford Powerstroke 6.7 in the super duty would scale down to 330/640 and those are definitely work trucks. Most of all if we scale up the 2.8l cummins that nissan tested its 210/385 goes to 375/690! It's hard to get excited about a new engine when it is potentially the lowest power per litre on the market. Unless it has some trade offs to justify that?

Cummins engines have a reputation for running longer than the RAM truck they've been stuffed in. Maybe the power is "down" per liter because it will also last for hundreds of thousands of miles more than others? If I've read the warranty information correctly, no, these are just regular light duty engines. Cummins gives the 5.0l isb a 100,000 mile warranty while the famous 6.7l isv also 300,000 miles for major components. I don't need 300,000 miles, but it is nice to know when buying a RAM that this is the kind of stuff it was designed for, that you should get more out of this than other brands. For this cummins it seems like it is merely on par with the competition.

I currently drive a cummins and am due to replace the vehicle in the near future and I don't need 900lb/ft. I was excited about the Titan XD, but the more I look into it the more I find myself asking "is that all?" Where is the thing it is best at you can fall in love with?

Firstly, a warm welcome to the forum!!

Now, I think you are currently in a 3/4 ton with the Cummins you have there right? I think that segment is pretty crowded and when Nissan decided to wade back into the truck market they wanted to place themselves in a spot where they had less competition which they call "white space"

Now other than winning the "who's sword is longer" war with numbers, I think they are on the right track. For someone like me, I want better fuel economy than you get in a 3/4 ton Diesel because I don't need 800/900lbs/ft of torque...I will use 500/600 from time to time though pulling a 30ft boat or my tractor to the dealership etc... ****, I used to pull cars around the Province on a dolly with my 91 Ram Diesel that only had 400lbs/ft of torque and thought I was the king of the world! haha

You are on the money for the Ecodiesel. The problem I see with that engine setup is too little torque (I don't really care about HP) and its by and large an unreliable engine. Just take a peek at their forum and you will see long threads of oil in antifreeze, grenades engines etc..

From my perspective Nissan need to build the following into the new Titan to assure success

1) Reliability
2) mid 20's fuel economy
3) Capable suspension but remain nice to ride when empty (better than 3/4 ton)

If I was pulling for a living or had a fifth wheel, I would be choosing the Ram 2500 or other 3/4 or 1 ton Diesel from the big three. But I am pulling heavy infrequently but using this as a daily driver as well.

Those are my thoughts from my perspective. Not saying they are gospel. Just what works for me

cheers

M1lks

P.S. I have a Ford Ecoboost for work and when I tow with it, the fuel economy sucks...Mixed driving it gets 16.2mpg (without towing). Highway it does very well however at 19.6MPG.

 

[pyro404]

The current Titan comes in at 317HP with 385 ft/lbs. That's not bad for gas but a big fact about gas is that fuel millage is more greatly effected by payloads and towing. The new Cummins at 310 and 555 will put that gas engine to shame at everything but top speed and do so while burning less fuel. On top of that being a diesel engine, fuel efficiency is much less effected as compared to gas. The Cummins 5L also has a long flat torque curve leaving lots of room for tuners to play.
For me, I need the ability to haul 1600lbs and tow 7500. Almost any 1/2ton would get the job done but this one will burn less fuel doing it than all but the RAM EcoD. The EcoD falls out of the running due to the non-Cummins engine and my decision is between the Titan XD and a RAM 2500 with a manual tranny which puts out 350/660(I prefer manual and don't need the absurdly high numbers achieved with the automatic). Both trucks should be able to manage my hunting load like it isn't even there, unlike the gas equivalent. Where is the excitement? For me it's in the functionality and my choice will come down to over all price(and possibly availability depending on when the Titans get here).

 

[shakethatdiesel]

Ever since the 5.6l v8 and 4.2l v6 stories of years gone by I've been excited about owning a vehicle with this engine.

But now that it is close I feel like it is a decade late. Am I missing something?

The first thing is the power is meh. Sure 310 is alright, but when a base 3.6l naturally aspirated pentastar is 305 and ford has the 2.7l ecoboost w/ 325 or the NA 5.0 with 385 there is no excitement to be had looking at something with "just" 310/555.

Somebody will probably point out that is gas. What if we scale up the ram's 3.0 diesel to be a 5.0? Its 240/420 would be 400/700! The Ford Powerstroke 6.7 in the super duty would scale down to 330/640 and those are definitely work trucks. Most of all if we scale up the 2.8l cummins that nissan tested its 210/385 goes to 375/690! It's hard to get excited about a new engine when it is potentially the lowest power per litre on the market. Unless it has some trade offs to justify that?

Cummins engines have a reputation for running longer than the RAM truck they've been stuffed in. Maybe the power is "down" per liter because it will also last for hundreds of thousands of miles more than others? If I've read the warranty information correctly, no, these are just regular light duty engines. Cummins gives the 5.0l isb a 100,000 mile warranty while the famous 6.7l isv also 300,000 miles for major components. I don't need 300,000 miles, but it is nice to know when buying a RAM that this is the kind of stuff it was designed for, that you should get more out of this than other brands. For this cummins it seems like it is merely on par with the competition.

I currently drive a cummins and am due to replace the vehicle in the near future and I don't need 900lb/ft. I was excited about the Titan XD, but the more I look into it the more I find myself asking "is that all?" Where is the thing it is best at you can fall in love with?

To be fair this engine has a very long torque bend which should make it easy to increase the raw power, as well with an Aisin transmission it will handle that extra power without any issues.

 

[dana44]

P.S. I have a Ford Ecoboost for work and when I tow with it, the fuel economy sucks...Mixed driving it gets 16.2mpg (without towing). Highway it does very well however at 19.6MPG.

I assume that is US mpg? I've hit 24mpg (20 in US mpg) as a full tank average Meritt to Calgary in my 2006 RAM 3500 w/ 5.9. I had to check the math because the display was trying to tell me my trip was close to 30mpg!! Go diesel.

I guess we'll see the fuel economy soon enough. If the 3.0 ecodiesel w/ 8 spd only gets low 20s combined mpg I'm skeptical this 5.0 w/ 6spd is going to be able break into the 20s other than highway cruising.

It is an interesting time with all these different options!

 

[NavyCuda]

It's hard to get excited about a new engine when it is potentially the lowest power per litre on the market. Unless it has some trade offs to justify that?

Considering how popular diesel tuning has become, it is my firm belief that Nissan and Cummins sandbagged the ISV and gave the Titan XD the components to withstand being turned up modestly.

Compared with the RAM Cummins 6.7L, the 5L is definitely more light duty.

I don't agree with this. I believe that the ISV is a heavy duty engine, however with modern engineering and smaller displacement so it weighs less and is more civil.

Someone was mentioning the 6-speed. With the right selection of gear rations and rear engine ratios the 6-speed is a better choice for the Titan XD. With peak torque reached by 1600rpm and going to 4200rpm, that gives you a span of 2600rpm where you have maximum torque output. No six speed on a diesel needs 2600rpm to reach the next gear.

Six-Speeds are proven and tough. 8-speeds have not proven themselves yet and none are behind the engines in the one-ton market. This six speed is related to one behind the 865ft.lbs ISB.

Tuners are going to turn these trucks way up and for the most part they're going to hold together except at the insane power levels. A truck that can withstand moderate tuning doesn't get slagged on as badly on the internet. That can help sell trucks.

 

[M1lkman]

I assume that is US mpg? I've hit 24mpg (20 in US mpg) as a full tank average Meritt to Calgary in my 2006 RAM 3500 w/ 5.9. I had to check the math because the display was trying to tell me my trip was close to 30mpg!! Go diesel.

I guess we'll see the fuel economy soon enough. If the 3.0 ecodiesel w/ 8 spd only gets low 20s combined mpg I'm skeptical this 5.0 w/ 6spd is going to be able break into the 20s other than highway cruising.

It is an interesting time with all these different options!

To be honest, I get so confused on the MPG differences. So I will give you my real world L/100kms. I get 12.5 to 12.9 running straight highway mileage....And I end up around 14 to 16 litres/100kms.

I thought people were getting mid to high 20's with the Ecodiesel. I could be wrong however.

cheers

 

[brulaz]

...
I believe that the ISV is a heavy duty engine, however with modern engineering and smaller displacement so it weighs less and is more civil.
...

When I look at the front end with all those chains, dual overhead cam shafts on each bank, and compare that to RAM inline 6 Cummins, I think smooth performance and, as you say, civility, but not longevity.

But you could be right. Only time will tell how long it lasts on the road.

And anyway, I don't need an engine with a long, heavy duty cycle. Don't think most of us non-commercial users do. So either way, it won't affect my buying decisions.

And as for 150 EcoBoost mileage, I monitor mine very closely and am getting 19.4mpgUS (~12L/100km) not towing, but only 10.4 mpgUS (~23L/100km) towing. I'm ok with the non-towing numbers, but would hope with the TitanXD I could get more like 13mpgUS towing. Most of our truck time is towing.

 

[brulaz]

To be honest, I get so confused on the MPG differences. So I will give you my real world L/100kms. I get 12.5 to 12.9 running straight highway mileage....And I end up around 14 to 16 litres/100kms.

I thought people were getting mid to high 20's with the Ecodiesel. I could be wrong however.

cheers

Methinks you have a lead foot. :angel:

Gas Turbos are notoriously bad news for folks like you.

 

[NavyCuda]

When I look at the front end with all those chains, dual overhead cam shafts on each bank, and compare that to RAM inline 6 Cummins, I think smooth performance and, as you say, civility, but not longevity.

As has been covered before, well lubricated chains will last the lifetime of the engine. The top end appears to be fully rollerised for reduced friction. Those chains won't be working as hard as they would be in a V8 gasoline engine spinning 6900rpm.

 

[brulaz]

As has been covered before, well lubricated chains will last the lifetime of the engine. The top end appears to be fully rollerised for reduced friction. Those chains won't be working as hard as they would be in a V8 gasoline engine spinning 6900rpm.

But what is that lifetime? The OP and I are comparing the 5L V8 Cummins to the 6.7 I6 Cummins, not to a gasser. I would bet the I6 lasts longer. It's just less complex, less sophisticated, with fewer things to go wrong.

But like I said, only road time will tell, and, anyway, the I6 is industrial over-kill for my purposes.

 

[NavyCuda]

I would say that if the Titan XD is tested to 600,000km, the ISV will last longer.

If the chain loading is correct it should last forever. The higher the engine RPM, the higher the stresses on the chain.

With a low friction valvetrain, a redline that is likely under 5000rpm and Nissan's chain experience, there is nothing to fear from the timing chain.

 

[M1lkman]

Methinks you have a lead foot. :angel:

Gas Turbos are notoriously bad news for folks like you.

D*am, guilty as charged officer...

 

[TurboDiesel]

Adding to the points highlighting Cummins, it's hard not to see the soundness of this package due to the fact that it is a Cummins engine powering this beast, making the chance for disappointment lower from how I see it.

 

[1atalbot]

Got to catch up with the Cummins guys at the Hershey Rv show and wow......MPG could be close to 27-28MPG in perfect conditions!

 

[1atalbot]

image.jpg (152.5 KB)

 

[brulaz]

View attachment 425 Got to catch up with the Cummins guys at the Hershey Rv show and wow......MPG could be close to 27-28MPG in perfect conditions!

That would be awesome.
I tend to drive conservatively so might actually be able to get close to that when not towing.

 

[54warrior]

View attachment 425 Got to catch up with the Cummins guys at the Hershey Rv show and wow......MPG could be close to 27-28MPG in perfect conditions!

Too bad production units won't be painted red and dressed in chrome!!! haha

 

[TurboDiesel]

Too bad production units won't be painted red and dressed in chrome!!! haha

I know right, how dope would that be if they actually did come like that.

It's probably a good thing because I would be spending too much time making sure the engine and engine bay is looking clean.
:grin2: