[Forge]

I'm sure that all of you have heard of the VW scandal. Cheating on emissions tests with their diesel vehicles. 11 million cars affected right now. Execs being thrown over board.

Lots of questions are being asked of diesel generally. Is it dead? Did others cheat?

Do you guys think that the VW diesel scandal is going to at all have an affect on us in regards to the Titan?

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/09/everything-you-need-to-know-about-volkswagen-s-diesel-scandal.html

 

[NavyCuda]

Cummins has a long relationship with the EPA and they've managed to get diesel engines certified to run in mines.

VW is going to hurt themselves more than anyone else.

I think the major points that should be taken away from this VW mess is that chasing emissions is a waste of time and we should be chasing after efficiency.

The pickup market will be uneffected because pick-ups need diesels to truely be competitive.

 

[pyro404]

The pickup market will be uneffected because pick-ups need diesels to truely be competitive.

I'll second that.

 

[Gabby]

I suspect VW sales will drop significantly and I believe I read VW is unable to sell new TDI diesels right now. Other manufactures may get a boost in sales until VW gets this issue worked out. Could take years.

 

[Gabby]

I'll also add they make a solid car. My brother in law loves them. Very little rust on these cars and easy to work on.

 

[Forge]

I saw that the Colorado diesel is being investigated now. So it is affecting trucks somewhat.

Do you think that the Ram EcoDiesel may be in trouble?

 

[NavyCuda]

Well plenty of people hate diesel and here is their chance to stick it to us oil burners!

 

[Forge]

Well plenty of people hate diesel and here is their chance to stick it to us oil burners!

This is true, but if it is true that diesels having been cheating then that should be brought to light. I bet you that there are diesels other than VW Group ones that were also cheating. Just a matter of figuring out which ones those are.

 

[TurboDiesel]

I saw that the Colorado diesel is being investigated now. So it is affecting trucks somewhat.

Do you think that the Ram EcoDiesel may be in trouble?

With FCA being as big as they are, they're bound to be one of the brands the EPA has in mind to target.

Apparently this whole thing started from an independent test group that was looking at the effectiveness of diesels and discovered the issues.

 

[TheGreatTitan]

It's already started bringing more scrutiny onto other car manufacturers but I wouldn't worry about it affecting the titan unless they fail the emissions test.

 

[TurboDiesel]

Plus it's a powerplant coming from cummins, they seem to be an honest brand and would at least hold up their end of the deal which helps Nissan look good come time for evaluating.

 

[Forge]

It's already started bringing more scrutiny onto other car manufacturers but I wouldn't worry about it affecting the titan unless they fail the emissions test.

I'm sure if there was an issue, they would try to take care of it now instead of waiting for some test to out them.

Is the scandal going to affect diesel prices or anything like that? Or are we pretty well in the clear?

 

[digitalbliss]

I'm sure if there was an issue, they would try to take care of it now instead of waiting for some test to out them.

Is the scandal going to affect diesel prices or anything like that? Or are we pretty well in the clear?

If anything, I would expect it to drive down the prices. If consumers relate diesel to equal "bad" then people will stay away from them. This would then force mfgs to give "incentives" (ie discounts) for people to take the plunge.

With that being said, I dont think it will do a thing on the diesel truck side of things. If it does have an impact, I would expect it to be on cars an CUV types of vehicles. Diesel truck owners typically (IMO) own them for towing and know exactly what advantages they have and usually dont have to be "convinced" by the mfgs.

 

[NavyCuda]

The ISV has had to pass both series of emissions testing. Cummins has an excellent validation process and it is safe to assume there will not be a single cummins sourced engine that will have any measurable emissions issue. Remember, Cummins is providing a complete package to Nissan. Cummins is responsible for the engine and after treatment and considering for a number of years they held over 50% of the market share of class 8 trucks, the last thing they're going to do is risk government scrutiny. Cummins biggest competitor, Caterpillar pulled out of the on-road market because they couldn't meet emissions. Cummins experience with the dodge ram helped them immensely to achieve their emissions.

 

[Forge]

I would also guess that the emissions regulations for diesel trucks are less intense than the regulations for diesel cars. So perhaps that makes it so that cheating isn't really something that people need to turn to.

 

[digitalbliss]

I would also guess that the emissions regulations for diesel trucks are less intense than the regulations for diesel cars. So perhaps that makes it so that cheating isn't really something that people need to turn to.

yesterday, I read an article that suggests that VW didn't actually "cheat" at all when reading the emissions standards by the other of the law. Apparently my he standard says that the vehicle hast to meet the stringent clean diesel emissions "at the time of testing" which, technically, it did.

Obviously, they knowingly did this to skew the results into their favor. And obviously the EPA will change the testing and wording of the laws but.... VW may actually be legally justified based on the wording of the law. Interesting never the less!

 

[Bianchi]

Also AFAIK, the ISV is held to different EPA metrics then the little VW's. They have different requirements based on the class of vehicle. don't ask me about the nuances, you try and sift through CARB resources/documents LOL...

 

[brulaz]

In 1998 Cummins and other heavy equipment diesel manufacturers were busted for defeat devices by the EPA. Hopefully they learned their lesson back then.

Also in 1998, EPA referred cases to the U.S. Justice Department against seven major manufacturers of heavy-duty diesel engines used in big trucks and earth-moving equipment after testing showed they used computer programing to pass emissions tests, then shift in actual use to reduce fuel consumption while pumping out prohibited levels of nitrogen oxide.
In what was then the largest environmental enforcement case in U.S. history, companies including industry leaders Caterpillar Inc., Cummins Engine Co., Mack Trucks and Volvo Truck Corp. agreed to pay $83.4 million in fines and reprogram the computers.

That's from here: http://www.ktre.com/story/30142915/vw-just-the-latest-in-long-history-of-cheating-car-companies

 

[NavyCuda]

Excellent find. I was not aware of that, though 1998 would be fresh in their memory still and it was around that time the ISV development started.

Interesting though that they (and VW) took a risk and put the customers needs of better efficiency over emissions.

 

[Bianchi]

In 1998 Cummins and other heavy equipment diesel manufacturers were busted for defeat devices by the EPA. Hopefully they learned their lesson back then.



That's from here: http://www.ktre.com/story/30142915/vw-just-the-latest-in-long-history-of-cheating-car-companies

Now I have a question..."testing showed they used computer programing to pass emissions tests, then shift in actual use to reduce fuel consumption while pumping out prohibited levels of nitrogen oxide."

If the engines needed to use more fuel in order to pass EPA tests and the defeat device allowed them to use less but spew more NOx aren't we talking essentially about a wash? If the engine is using more fuel to pass emissions doesn't that ostensibly mean its also emitting more emissions?