[BigRedcustoms]

Here's some comments regarding the XD Aisin transmission from RevMax Performance. Of coarse they looking at it from a tuners point of view.

"Saw above someone quoted that they thought the Nissan Titan is using the same transmission at the Ram 3500. This is completely FALSE!

The Titan AS69RC shares almost NOTHING with the Ram AS69RC. The only PART that interchanges between them is the valve body. Nothing else is even close. The converter is 3" smaller, the case, bellhousing and all internals are all completely different.

The Dodge version stinks, but the Nissan version is COMPLETE JUNK! If they crank those trucks past 650ft lbs of torque they will be popping transmission left and right.

We have both units in here and have of course torn down both and we were blown away with how bad the Nissan version was."

I can agree that the converter is not the same used in the ram, then again, not a product of the transmission, size isn't everything. I have a billet 9in vigilante from PI that is 5in smaller than my stock unit, but holds about 750hp all day while in lockup due to its larger clutch area and material. Now in the diesel world, back in the day you needed a large converter for fluid area and lots of cooling because the stator was always in freewheel under load at hwy speed creating heat, especially up long hills. Now days, you have multi-plate lock-up units that are tremendously more effective. Lock-up strategy for the titan xd starts as early as second gear, so big converters are a thing of the past. Once your moving, it's dang near a manual.

Now again, these guys are there to sell parts, and from my time with transmissions on the bench, a transmission isn't different if you use the same valvebody (buy his own admission), there are different orfice sizes/passages and plates if the internals have changed any measurable amount, just fact. He also has a transmission in development with his valve body and billet clutch drums slated for the titan XD/as69rc. Now frictions are a different matter as well, depending on the type material, there can be torque capacity lost in favor of a softer transitions between shifts, but I digress. I think we have beaten this horse plenty.

 

[slurpee3]

Ok I'll put this to bed.

A) the A466ND is the same transmission as the AS69RC minus the casting provisions, yes I verified from Aisin via a very lengthy phone call to their Northville, MI office.

B) a well known but sometimes shady organization revmax carries a billet kit and soon to be full transmission with a modded valvebody for the AS69RC/....annnnd gasp, referenceing the titan xd, also one in the same:wink2:
P.S.
They have been about 4 different companies so take it with a grain of salt, Frank is all about selling you his product. Funny in the posts he mentions they are completely different, nissan's is crap, yet he mentioned they both have the same valvebody, even more interesting he makes said valvebody and aforementioned billet goodies for nissan's titan trans, err I mean AS69RC...lol!

C) Nobody in their right mind in R&D is going to have another company build a completely different transmission just for them, soup to nuts, when a perfectly proven commercially viable transmission exists that has already been on the design table for other platforms, cough....ram. Cummins had other ideas already in mind, but since Fiat took hold of the reins, they sheved the venture in favor of the 3.0 and the venerable ZF 8spd. Since a few folks caught wind of some federal cheddar to fund a direct swap power plant that could potentially fit into most bays replacing a V8 gasser (for the sake of fuel economy), the titan xd was drawn up. This obviously isn't Cummins' only suitor, uncle Sam has been looking hard at these to augment the mil vehicle side of things with the same running gear, I've seen the proposal and have hands in said cookie jar.

True, it doesn't shift the same as a dodge with the 6.7, but your comparing apples to oranges. The transmission is the same mechanically, but the programming is completely different not only in application but weight and axle ratios. Not to mention the two engines have vastly different torque curves and outputs. If your wondering why the long data interpolation and drive cycles for this Turkey to settle down, just imagine for a second trying to learn input and output speeds, shift time intervals, converter lockup/slip, torque calulations, line pressure adjustments via PWM devices like force motors, over the entire rpm range of an engine at a given fuel input over a multitude of variables like....atmospheric (baro) pressures which affect manifold pressures, parasitic/pumping losses, temperatures of fluids/shear, and toss in some pixie dust for kicks. You can never be perfect and I recall plenty of grips on the dodge and Cummins forums regarding shift issues for both the 68 and 69RC. These platforms will have growing pains. I tune many a wheel vehicles and your always tweaking, it never stops completely. Just when you find a tune or calibration that's livable, some knucklehead friend or forum keyboard warrior springs an idea or new parameter to edit and you say a few choice words and dig right back in to the ECM/TCM:grin2:

My truck is doing great, sure I had my complaints, but the dealer was excellent every time, helps the techs are both diesel junkies that drive fords and chevy's at the local diesel dayz track events. So I'm in good hands....:storm:

I can agree that the converter is not the same used in the ram, then again, not a product of the transmission, size isn't everything. I have a billet 9in vigilante from PI that is 5in smaller than my stock unit, but holds about 750hp all day while in lockup due to its larger clutch area and material. Now in the diesel world, back in the day you needed a large converter for fluid area and lots of cooling because the stator was always in freewheel under load at hwy speed creating heat, especially up long hills. Now days, you have multi-plate lock-up units that are tremendously more effective. Lock-up strategy for the titan xd starts as early as second gear, so big converters are a thing of the past. Once your moving, it's dang near a manual.

Now again, these guys are there to sell parts, and from my time with transmissions on the bench, a transmission isn't different if you use the same valvebody (buy his own admission), there are different orfice sizes/passages and plates if the internals have changed any measurable amount, just fact. He also has a transmission in development with his valve body and billet clutch drums slated for the titan XD/as69rc. Now frictions are a different matter as well, depending on the type material, there can be torque capacity lost in favor of a softer transitions between shifts, but I digress. I think we have beaten this horse plenty.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express again last night? :bowdown:

I too caught the fact that he was referring to the Nissan tranny as an AS69RC. Thought to myself if a guy is really an expert in the field, shouldn't he be referring to it correctly? :icon_scratch:

 

[nihilus]

Pretty heated argument, as expected. OP, your videos will help a lot for future buyers. There are just some things that are hard to get from a test drive OR from reviewers who typically test their trucks in sunny California weather. Good on you. I just wish you would have noted that there is a GAS XD, which has had far less problems. I believe that is a good truck. Some actually don't mind the major problems of the diesel XD such as transmission shifts, cold starts, MAJOR acceleration delay. Others, like most that are commenting here, they are really defensive of their $50k purchase. Many of them don't have the courage to face that they might have made the wrong choice, unlike you.


also, some more transmission crap


http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/aisin.html

"The Ram started using the Aisin Seiki six-speed AS68RC automatic transmission in 2007, as an option on all of its diesel-powered chassis cab trucks; the transmission was rated at 750 lb-ft of input torque capacity..."

..."In 2013, Ram switched to the more robust AS69RC automatic, which also had some control changes for greater durability, and extended availability to the Ram 3500 pickup; Ram also claimed a 1% gain in transmission efficiency, with better driveability.

Maybe the XD's 66ND is closer to that of the older 68RC, which also had similiar ratios?

 

[slurpee3]

Pretty heated argument, as expected. OP, your videos will help a lot for future buyers. There are just some things that are hard to get from a test drive OR from reviewers who typically test their trucks in sunny California weather. Good on you. I just wish you would have noted that there is a GAS XD, which has had far less problems. I believe that is a good truck. Some actually don't mind the major problems of the diesel XD such as transmission shifts, cold starts, MAJOR acceleration delay. Others, like most that are commenting here, they are really defensive of their $50k purchase. Many of them don't have the courage to face that they might have made the wrong choice, unlike you.


also, some more transmission crap


http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/aisin.html

"The Ram started using the Aisin Seiki six-speed AS68RC automatic transmission in 2007, as an option on all of its diesel-powered chassis cab trucks; the transmission was rated at 750 lb-ft of input torque capacity..."

..."In 2013, Ram switched to the more robust AS69RC automatic, which also had some control changes for greater durability, and extended availability to the Ram 3500 pickup; Ram also claimed a 1% gain in transmission efficiency, with better driveability.

Maybe the XD's 66ND is closer to that of the older 68RC, which also had similiar ratios?

Or maybe the its based off the AS66RC, it does have a 66 in it. :devil:

"Starting in 2014, Ram 4500 and 5500 chassis cabs carried a standard Aisin AS66RC (also optional on Ram 3500). This transmission provided an optional 45 hp and 250 lb-ft of torque through a power takeoff (PTO) on either the right or left side of the cab; the computer uses cylinder deactivation on the Hemi while in PTO mode, saving fuel. The design of the AS66RC seems to be similar to the AS69RC; gear ratios are identical. In the chassis cabs, axle ratios were 4.44 (Ram 3500, 4500) or 4.88 (Ram 4500, 5500)."

 

[nihilus]

Haha, Aisin has useless naming of their transmission. The first 6 is obviously the amount of forward gears. That 2nd number doesn't really seem to mean anything. I much prefer names like 4R60, 6R80, 6R140.

Furthermore, all 3 of those Aisin transmissions have slightly different 1st and/or 2nd gear ratios. The 6R80 and 6R100 are EXACTLY the same.

 

[Jtp]

Order a Kat's Magnetic block heater, 60.00, and slap it on, problem solved
What the heck, just go crazy and buy a Kat's Lower radiator hose heater for 35.00 You will save yourself a lot of agitation
You Are Welcome...
I have never owned a Diesel, and know that diesel engine owners sometimes benefit by using them.
I am not buying one though, because mine starts fine down to 10 degrees, so far, but if it needs one, I will hop on the internet, and order myself one

As far as shifting.....Well it is a bigass truck, pushing 7500 pounds empty, that will pull well over 12k, plus push the 7500lb truck itself...
The Titan XD is probably my second favorite vehicle ever, but by far the nicest, I enjoy driving it more than my wife's Cadillac, and that thing is awesome in itself.
My Miata is my favorite car.

 

[Jtp]

NISSAN block heater
Part numbers for heater plug and cord. 11001 EZ40A (cord) and 24076 EZ00A (heater)...

 

[360steve]

I purchased mine about a month ago and what I noticed compared to my ford or my dodge is the xd just seems to shift down each gear as to the other trucks would seem to shift down but not like you had a manual shifting down through each gear. I could get my ford to do almost the same down shifting in tow mode only. to me it was just really different but the more I drive it the more I like it. I pull a tad over 12,000 pounds a couple times a week so far and it does great and the down shifting it does really helps on the stopping. its been about 24 degrees over here and my truck will do that quick warm up and start right up. I drive for a living hauling hay with my semi so I know power and braking and what helps and I have to say this little truck isn't so little just looks that way. I feel very safe pulling my tractor or excavator and even more when I'm going down hill coming to a stop. Driving empty and just around town I noticed if you ease into the pedal it likes to give more for you compared if you slam it. It was built for pulling and having the size for the customers that didn't want the large 1 ton. I think they did a great job.. I'm not saying its perfect but for what I wanted it is.. rides so much better then the others I think to. I would be super stoked if the darn regan crap would stop blowing into my vents while defrost is going but will see how that goes. I had as well the 2014 tundra and yes that was a half ton but more like a car.. So I figure I've got a pretty good range done of trucks. I think some of the folks are right on here. its all preference. I'm happy to stick with this one

 

[Demiles]

From the information I have found, I agree with BigRedcustoms. The Aisin AS68RC is also identified as a A465, and the AS69RC as the A466. So him calling them both a AS69RC is not entirely wrong although the A466ND is a variation of it. With that said I doubt they are that much different internally since the valve bodies are the same, the gearing the same, a lot of the aftermarket pan makers note that it will fit the A466ND, and weight as well. I really question that they tore one down or they are not telling the truth. The shifting characteristics described by the Ram guys are also in line with being described here on this forum.

 

[gerbskie]

The training course is a 5 day course. The problem is that most of the issues that people are complaining about has more to do with computer software and not mechanical problems.



If they didn't the dealer should have told you to expect harder shifting until the transmission completes its self learn procedure which usually takes around 1000 kms depending on driving habits.



Despite how Nissan has marketed this truck it is not 1/2 ton. It is a class 2b or light duty 3/4 ton truck.

Test driving a Ram is comparing apples to oranges. Even if the transmissions were identical and used identical TCM programming, the TCM still is communicating with other control modules that have different programming and characteristics so they will react differently



Shifting characteristics, expectations on acceleration are a personal preference. Nissan could program the TCM to shift smoother and you may like it while others will complain it is not firm enough. Nissan has to find a happy medium and then let the self learning fine tune the shifting. Sometimes this takes more than one attempt.

You have had starting issues and it sounds like you are a first responder so that is not something you can live with. I am not sure if you have taken it to the dealer for this problem or not. And if you have done so, have you left it there so they can duplicate the problem when it is cold? The only way to be able to trace an issue like that is to be able to monitor sensor readings while the problem is occurring.

You have spent a lot of money on something and you are not happy with it. You have every right to complain about it. But at the same time people have to realize that just because something is not the way they like it to be, doesn't mean that it is broken. Hopefully your dealership works with you to get your concerns addressed.

Yes i took it to the dealer and was told that i was the 5th or 6th to bring their truck in, some had to have theirs towed to the dealership. They said when they contacted nissan about it, all they said was that it may be the fuel but he said he would try to get a better answer for me. I try to make sure i get the winter blend so i head over to the truck stops by the highway, but their is no way to tell at the pump atleast around me if its winter grade or summer. My point still is though, that its a 2016 and people around me use gas stations just on one of the local streets near us and they still start right away. They park their trucks just as i do outside on their driveway.

 

[gerbskie]

NISSAN block heater
Part numbers for heater plug and cord. 11001 EZ40A (cord) and 24076 EZ00A (heater)...

They do not offer the block heater in the states, i do not have the heater assembly period.

 

[gerbskie]

Pretty heated argument, as expected. OP, your videos will help a lot for future buyers. There are just some things that are hard to get from a test drive OR from reviewers who typically test their trucks in sunny California weather. Good on you. I just wish you would have noted that there is a GAS XD, which has had far less problems. I believe that is a good truck. Some actually don't mind the major problems of the diesel XD such as transmission shifts, cold starts, MAJOR acceleration delay. Others, like most that are commenting here, they are really defensive of their $50k purchase. Many of them don't have the courage to face that they might have made the wrong choice, unlike you.


also, some more transmission crap


http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/aisin.html

"The Ram started using the Aisin Seiki six-speed AS68RC automatic transmission in 2007, as an option on all of its diesel-powered chassis cab trucks; the transmission was rated at 750 lb-ft of input torque capacity..."

..."In 2013, Ram switched to the more robust AS69RC automatic, which also had some control changes for greater durability, and extended availability to the Ram 3500 pickup; Ram also claimed a 1% gain in transmission efficiency, with better driveability.

Maybe the XD's 66ND is closer to that of the older 68RC, which also had similiar ratios?

Exactly my point, i spent 50k plus with thousands in cosmetic upgrades. So at this point i am going through the buy back process but will loose as i said thousands in the process so not fun.

 

[gerbskie]

Ok I'll put this to bed.

A) the A466ND is the same transmission as the AS69RC minus the casting provisions, yes I verified from Aisin via a very lengthy phone call to their Northville, MI office.

B) a well known but sometimes shady organization revmax carries a billet kit and soon to be full transmission with a modded valvebody for the AS69RC/....annnnd gasp, referenceing the titan xd, also one in the same:wink2:
P.S.
They have been about 4 different companies so take it with a grain of salt, Frank is all about selling you his product. Funny in the posts he mentions they are completely different, nissan's is crap, yet he mentioned they both have the same valvebody, even more interesting he makes said valvebody and aforementioned billet goodies for nissan's titan trans, err I mean AS69RC...lol!

C) Nobody in their right mind in R&D is going to have another company build a completely different transmission just for them, soup to nuts, when a perfectly proven commercially viable transmission exists that has already been on the design table for other platforms, cough....ram. Cummins had other ideas already in mind, but since Fiat took hold of the reins, they sheved the venture in favor of the 3.0 and the venerable ZF 8spd. Since a few folks caught wind of some federal cheddar to fund a direct swap power plant that could potentially fit into most bays replacing a V8 gasser (for the sake of fuel economy), the titan xd was drawn up. This obviously isn't Cummins' only suitor, uncle Sam has been looking hard at these to augment the mil vehicle side of things with the same running gear, I've seen the proposal and have hands in said cookie jar.

True, it doesn't shift the same as a dodge with the 6.7, but your comparing apples to oranges. The transmission is the same mechanically, but the programming is completely different not only in application but weight and axle ratios. Not to mention the two engines have vastly different torque curves and outputs. If your wondering why the long data interpolation and drive cycles for this Turkey to settle down, just imagine for a second trying to learn input and output speeds, shift time intervals, converter lockup/slip, torque calulations, line pressure adjustments via PWM devices like force motors, over the entire rpm range of an engine at a given fuel input over a multitude of variables like....atmospheric (baro) pressures which affect manifold pressures, parasitic/pumping losses, temperatures of fluids/shear, and toss in some pixie dust for kicks. You can never be perfect and I recall plenty of grips on the dodge and Cummins forums regarding shift issues for both the 68 and 69RC. These platforms will have growing pains. I tune many a wheel vehicles and your always tweaking, it never stops completely. Just when you find a tune or calibration that's livable, some knucklehead friend or forum keyboard warrior springs an idea or new parameter to edit and you say a few choice words and dig right back in to the ECM/TCM:grin2:

My truck is doing great, sure I had my complaints, but the dealer was excellent every time, helps the techs are both diesel junkies that drive fords and chevy's at the local diesel dayz track events. So I'm in good hands....:storm:

I have no idea how you got to get a phone call with them, i had to send them another email trying to get the exact specs for everyone. So if you truly did call them then good on you but i still believe its completely different from when i had seen it before either on their website or when i emailed them last getting specs on their transmissions. Once i get an email back from them, i will post it here and if im wrong im wrong. I dont much care if im wrong, i was already wrong for my purchase so, so be it.

 

[Sellitwv]

NISSAN block heater
Part numbers for heater plug and cord. 11001 EZ40A (cord) and 24076 EZ00A (heater)...

They do not offer the block heater in the states, i do not have the heater assembly period.

It is not standard equipment in lower 48 states HOWEVER they DO offer it as I just ordered these parts and had them installed yesterday. 274.73 for installation and to purge air from the system. 200 bucks for tech to install and 2 gallons of antifreeze at 22 bucks a gallon. I didn't have the same problem with starting in the cold but want to nip the problem before it becomes a problem. The truck has started all the way down to about 6 farenheight without having the block heater installed. Your truck should not take that long to start... I would be frustrated as well if I were in your shoes.

 

[gerbskie]

Sorry if i didnt reply to someone, trying to keep up.

 

[gerbskie]

It is not standard equipment in lower 48 states HOWEVER they DO offer it as I just ordered these parts and had them installed yesterday. 274.73 for installation and to purge air from the system. 200 bucks for tech to install and 2 gallons of antifreeze at 22 bucks a gallon. I didn't have the same problem with starting in the cold but want to nip the problem before it becomes a problem. The truck has started all the way down to about 6 farenheight without having the block heater installed. Your truck should not take that long to start... I would be frustrated as well if I were in your shoes.

The day after was even worse, i had to cycle the glow plugs a total of 6 times before i showed any signs of starting but then you get worried about the starter but i had to get going asap.

 

[Kadoi]

I have no idea how you got to get a phone call with them, i had to send them another email trying to get the exact specs for everyone. So if you truly did call them then good on you but i still believe its completely different from when i had seen it before either on their website or when i emailed them last getting specs on their transmissions. Once i get an email back from them, i will post it here and if im wrong im wrong. I dont much care if im wrong, i was already wrong for my purchase so, so be it.

Back in my Chrysler days their transmissions went by several different names. (42RH/42RE/44RE) --> This group was also called A500. Then you had the (46RH/46RH/47RE/47RH/48RE/48RH) - This group was also called A518. Between these 9 transmission and 2 sub-family a majority of the parts would interchange. Also the valve bodies from the 42 to the 46 would all interchange. The primary differences were planetary gear set number of gears and clutch drum capacities, other wise nearly identical, but the 42 was put behind the 4.0 inline 6 and the 48 behind the 600lb ft tq H.O Cummins.

I guess what I am saying is I can understand how confusing it can be to determine just what the transmission is capable of and comparable to. I am not saying that our transmission is that same or different than the Rams - just saying that until someone has a Aisin parts listing for both transmissions side by side I think we could go back and forth on this forever.

 

[Jtp]

They do not offer the block heater in the states, i do not have the heater assembly period.

Several US people on other Titan XD forums have bought them, Run around 85 dollars if I remember correctly.
There is a myriad of after market block heaters out there, Some are magnetic, so you literally just slap them on.
You can also use the radiator heaters, from the after market.

For all the wailing, and teeth gnashing of teeth people are doing, about a block heater, they could jump on amazon and order one for 35-70 bucks, get it in two days, and hook it up.

 

[Growler]

Several US people on other Titan XD forums have bought them, Run around 85 dollars if I remember correctly.
There is a myriad of after market block heaters out there, Some are magnetic, so you literally just slap them on.
You can also use the radiator heaters, from the after market.

For all the wailing, and teeth gnashing of teeth people are doing, about a block heater, they could jump on amazon and order one for 35-70 bucks, get it in two days, and hook it up.

Just an FYI, my wife has an 2013 Audi Q5 Diesel she purchased new from SouthGate Audi in Edmonton, they do not come with a block heater and Audi did not think it was necessary for our climate......!!!
That Q5 has been outside on our farm since she bought it and NEVER failed to start easily..........
So to the unfortunate ones having start problems it would seem that the problem might be with the "preheat" system and installing a block heater is only a bandaid for the real issue??:grin2:

 

[gerbskie]

Back in my Chrysler days their transmissions went by several different names. (42RH/42RE/44RE) --> This group was also called A500. Then you had the (46RH/46RH/47RE/47RH/48RE/48RH) - This group was also called A518. Between these 9 transmission and 2 sub-family a majority of the parts would interchange. Also the valve bodies from the 42 to the 46 would all interchange. The primary differences were planetary gear set number of gears and clutch drum capacities, other wise nearly identical, but the 42 was put behind the 4.0 inline 6 and the 48 behind the 600lb ft tq H.O Cummins.

I guess what I am saying is I can understand how confusing it can be to determine just what the transmission is capable of and comparable to. I am not saying that our transmission is that same or different than the Rams - just saying that until someone has a Aisin parts listing for both transmissions side by side I think we could go back and forth on this forever.

Thats why i am hoping to get an email back with everything i asked for. When i do i will post it somewhere here in the forums.