Attached will be my video on why not to buy the XD, i was able to sit with the tech for over an hour yesterday trying different things in order to try to get the transmission to shift smoother plus i got an answer about the block heater for us in the states. So as far as what the diesel tech said, he said that from what he has seen is that they really rushed the truck. He said they have no fixes and that in the instructions they tell him to reference a known good truck. So hes like, what if the only known good truck is the one at the testing facility. He said out of the 12 or so sold at that dealership 4 have been sold back because people do not want a hard shifting truck with no fixes in sight, or a truck that has recalls but the fixes take weeks to do. Its one thing to have a recall, then go in and get it fixed but this truck is not like that. Anyway a master tech is going to come out from nissan to try to fix it or i will be selling mine back as well. This will be the 5th time for this problem and has been in the shop for over 30 business days. As far as the block heater goes for us in the states, i was told that right now they are blaming it not starting on the diesel fuel you put into your truck. As in, a winter grade or non winter grade so no signs for a block heater yet because nissan does not want to take the blame so they a shoving it on cummins. Same goes for the transmission, the tech said that since no one wants to take the blame, you have Aisin saying its the engines fault and you have cummins saying its Aisins fault and nissan says that they dont have any knowledge of what to do and they say they will get in contact with cummins about it. Its just dickered, so as the title of the thread says, do not buy the truck until all this is figured out, as in 2018 o 2019 vehicle model years.
Dont buy the xd and here is why
gerbskie
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Thank you haha, its not like im happy about all this. I mean i made a video to try to help people out before buying the truck now. I even said in the video to wait until 2017 or 2018 model years. I have been very active in this forum since i joined and now that i have an opinion that varies from everyone else im getting the dick lol. I mean i dont enjoy loosing money everyday i dont have my truck.
No, you can hear and feel my transmission clunk into gear, this is not normal. And i went and looked on the aisin website for myself months ago before i bought the truck. I dont need to look at an article, most of those reporters havent drove a truck in their life.
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It's not the same transmission. Similar? Yes, but not the same. At the very least, the programming logic is certainly different. Read up to get the facts straight....
http://www.dieselhub.com/trans/aisin-a466nd.html
http://www.dieselhub.com/trans/aisin-as69rc.html
Thank you, these people look at one link and automatically its right. All it takes is two minutes to look it up on aisins website.
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OK, you're going to have to provide a link. I've been on Aisin's site, actually three or four of them, as they seem to have 1-2 for each country (Japan and US). Anyway, I can't find a single link to the AS69RC or the A466ND on their website, their internal search links provide nothing, and Google provides nothing WRT an actual Aisin based URL link.
I would agree, ours should shift as well as a RAM 3500. I would also venture to guess that if it doesn't now, there will be updates to the TCM that will move in that direction over the next year or so.
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Mine shifts fine. Always has.
But it is a bit better now at 4K miles than it was new.
The heated seats could be warmer, it could get better than 19 mpg.
The front end could be a little less ugly.
Frogs could grow wings so they don't bump their ass when they hop.
It's a truck, I love mine.
But it is a bit better now at 4K miles than it was new.
The heated seats could be warmer, it could get better than 19 mpg.
The front end could be a little less ugly.
Frogs could grow wings so they don't bump their ass when they hop.
It's a truck, I love mine.
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I found these links earlier today. I see no where on these links where one could say they do not share the same internals? Everyone agrees its not literally the same, their model numbers are different. The RAM version at minimum has a PTO that makes it different. However, I would read the two sites provided and it would lead me to believe with the same ratios and almost exactly the same weight that one could assume they're more alike than different.
Your point on the programming logic doesn't make sense. Yes, I'm sure the programming is different, but if Ford were to purchase a AS69RC and put it in their SuperDuty, I can almost guarantee they would have different programming logic than RAM. Does that mean its a different transmission?
The point people are making, or at least I'm trying to make, when claiming its the "same" is that the internals are the same making the transmission 1 ton worthy in a truck that is not a 1 ton truck. Basically, its overbuilt and until I definitively find out otherwise, I'll continue to make that claim.
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Ok, so if they are the same transmission but they shift a act differently, why? Could it be the proamming logic? I dunno, why does a tuned truck preform differently that a stock truck? Could it be the programming? I don't think anyone here has complained of the actual transmission internals, instead, they are complaining about the FEEL of it. The way is shifts. When it shifts. This is, of course, controlled by its programming.
even if they are basically the same transmission, they apparently don't act like it, and that's obviously a problem!
Anyway, the original complaint about the trans is not its capability, it's how it actually shifts and drives.
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I'm not knocking the complaint. I hope the OP gets his issues fixed and changes his tune because I enjoy the truck and want it to succeed, but have no issue with him expressing his displeasure. I haven't had the TCM update done on mine so can't speak to how it'll shift once its done, but mine definitely has some quirkiness that my Allison did not have. I can live with it, but I'm hoping it'll improve through firmware updates.
My comment was solely in response to his comment that they are not the same transmission. All the data I've found up to this point tells me they are other than some lipstick, but if someone has something that definitively states otherwise, I'd prefer to be corrected so as to not be propagating incorrect info or worse yet make some claim on a Ford forum only to be proved wrong by those guys! :wink2:
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Exactly!!!!! Of course it's not the exact same, it is for a different truck and is tuned by Cummins for the Cummins ISV....
Don't remember who said it but I have done my own research been following the production of this truck for a few years actually.
The pics below are absolutely not proof as without getting the guy who designed these we will probably never be able to find definitive proof. The weight and ratios are almost identical... the weight of the XD tranny is one of the heaviest in both 1/2 and 1 ton categories... again weight doesn't prove anything just another arrow pointing that direction.
#titanxdfanboy
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What I am saying is that not having a block heater should not be a complaint - he should instead be complaining that his truck won't start in cold as advertised. That has absolutely nothing to do with it not having a block heater. I'm starting to think regarding some of the cold start issues (not all) that it may very well be fuel related.
All I know is mine starts as advertised and that is down to -5 Fahrenheit so far. No block heater required.
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Head over to Dodge/Ram Cummins forums and you may find some useful information there on the Aisin. Those guys have been using them for sometime now. People complaining about the hard/weird shifting on the Aisin, just as here the expectations are for smooth shifting. It's seems that's those that tow heavy really like it, even saw comments about the clunking noise. They describe the same type learn feature just as we have with the XD as well.
The training course is a 5 day course. The problem is that most of the issues that people are complaining about has more to do with computer software and not mechanical problems.
If they didn't the dealer should have told you to expect harder shifting until the transmission completes its self learn procedure which usually takes around 1000 kms depending on driving habits.
Despite how Nissan has marketed this truck it is not 1/2 ton. It is a class 2b or light duty 3/4 ton truck.
Test driving a Ram is comparing apples to oranges. Even if the transmissions were identical and used identical TCM programming, the TCM still is communicating with other control modules that have different programming and characteristics so they will react differently.
Shifting characteristics, expectations on acceleration are a personal preference. Nissan could program the TCM to shift smoother and you may like it while others will complain it is not firm enough. Nissan has to find a happy medium and then let the self learning fine tune the shifting. Sometimes this takes more than one attempt.
You have had starting issues and it sounds like you are a first responder so that is not something you can live with. I am not sure if you have taken it to the dealer for this problem or not. And if you have done so, have you left it there so they can duplicate the problem when it is cold? The only way to be able to trace an issue like that is to be able to monitor sensor readings while the problem is occurring.
You have spent a lot of money on something and you are not happy with it. You have every right to complain about it. But at the same time people have to realize that just because something is not the way they like it to be, doesn't mean that it is broken. Hopefully your dealership works with you to get your concerns addressed.
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The above is kind of what I was getting at. You do have every right to complain, but to me it seems that you are complaining about things that are out of control of the truck. The shifts are what they are, there isn't any grinding or slipping, tires barking or spinning. That is the nature of the transmission. In both of your videos the ride seems to be smooth and quiet. As for the block heater I agree you probably need one, BUT did you not check on that at time of purchase.
When I think of complaining about things I think of water coming in during rain, or wind whistling due to improper seals, or oil usage. Those type problems indicate something wrong with the truck. But a transmission that doesn't shift smoothly as you think it should may not be broken. It may be the nature of the beast.
I'm not a "fan boy" by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, I do like my truck but I would be the first to complain if it had an issue that was genuinely wrong...not just an issue I don't like.
Just my thoughts.
When I think of complaining about things I think of water coming in during rain, or wind whistling due to improper seals, or oil usage. Those type problems indicate something wrong with the truck. But a transmission that doesn't shift smoothly as you think it should may not be broken. It may be the nature of the beast.
I'm not a "fan boy" by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, I do like my truck but I would be the first to complain if it had an issue that was genuinely wrong...not just an issue I don't like.
Just my thoughts.
Here's some comments regarding the XD Aisin transmission from RevMax Performance. Of coarse they looking at it from a tuners point of view.
"Saw above someone quoted that they thought the Nissan Titan is using the same transmission at the Ram 3500. This is completely FALSE!
The Titan AS69RC shares almost NOTHING with the Ram AS69RC. The only PART that interchanges between them is the valve body. Nothing else is even close. The converter is 3" smaller, the case, bellhousing and all internals are all completely different.
The Dodge version stinks, but the Nissan version is COMPLETE JUNK! If they crank those trucks past 650ft lbs of torque they will be popping transmission left and right.
We have both units in here and have of course torn down both and we were blown away with how bad the Nissan version was."
"Saw above someone quoted that they thought the Nissan Titan is using the same transmission at the Ram 3500. This is completely FALSE!
The Titan AS69RC shares almost NOTHING with the Ram AS69RC. The only PART that interchanges between them is the valve body. Nothing else is even close. The converter is 3" smaller, the case, bellhousing and all internals are all completely different.
The Dodge version stinks, but the Nissan version is COMPLETE JUNK! If they crank those trucks past 650ft lbs of torque they will be popping transmission left and right.
We have both units in here and have of course torn down both and we were blown away with how bad the Nissan version was."
Of course my browser won't add the link correctly so cut and paste.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/4...th-gen-performance-parts-discussion/1524242-2013-efilive-aisin-feedback-13.html
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/4...th-gen-performance-parts-discussion/1524242-2013-efilive-aisin-feedback-13.html
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Exactly!!!!! Of course it's not the exact same, it is for a different truck and is tuned by Cummins for the Cummins ISV....
Don't remember who said it but I have done my own research been following the production of this truck for a few years actually.
The pics below are absolutely not proof as without getting the guy who designed these we will probably never be able to find definitive proof. The weight and ratios are almost identical... the weight of the XD tranny is one of the heaviest in both 1/2 and 1 ton categories... again weight doesn't prove anything just another arrow pointing that direction.
#titanxdfanboy
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So there ya go. A link to a web site where someone (a vendor from revmax) claims to have torn down both the Titan XD and Ram 3500 Aisin transmissions and claims they are both totally different. Of course, don't believe everything you read on the internet, but I have no reason to believe revmax would be wrong.
This thread has really ended up being the transmission thread.
It really does come down to personal preference as well.
Part of my like of the xd is the heavy dutyness of it. The flare ups between shifts smooth out with miles. But some of us dont mind it and know it's the nature of the beast.
When my sv got a reflash the tranny almost smoothed out too much. But eventually the shift pattern I was use to came back. I'm good with it. I don't consider it too bad.
But too each there own.
With that being said some attention does need to be made to rectify the diesel in cab smell. Yes it can be manipulated but you shouldn't have too. I know ram ecodiesel had a recall over it.
It really does come down to personal preference as well.
Part of my like of the xd is the heavy dutyness of it. The flare ups between shifts smooth out with miles. But some of us dont mind it and know it's the nature of the beast.
When my sv got a reflash the tranny almost smoothed out too much. But eventually the shift pattern I was use to came back. I'm good with it. I don't consider it too bad.
But too each there own.
With that being said some attention does need to be made to rectify the diesel in cab smell. Yes it can be manipulated but you shouldn't have too. I know ram ecodiesel had a recall over it.
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Ok I'll put this to bed.
A) the A466ND is the same transmission as the AS69RC minus the casting provisions, yes I verified from Aisin via a very lengthy phone call to their Northville, MI office.
B) a well known but sometimes shady organization revmax carries a billet kit and soon to be full transmission with a modded valvebody for the AS69RC/....annnnd gasp, referenceing the titan xd, also one in the same:wink2:
P.S.
They have been about 4 different companies so take it with a grain of salt, Frank is all about selling you his product. Funny in the posts he mentions they are completely different, nissan's is crap, yet he mentioned they both have the same valvebody, even more interesting he makes said valvebody and aforementioned billet goodies for nissan's titan trans, err I mean AS69RC...lol!
C) Nobody in their right mind in R&D is going to have another company build a completely different transmission just for them, soup to nuts, when a perfectly proven commercially viable transmission exists that has already been on the design table for other platforms, cough....ram. Cummins had other ideas already in mind, but since Fiat took hold of the reins, they sheved the venture in favor of the 3.0 and the venerable ZF 8spd. Since a few folks caught wind of some federal cheddar to fund a direct swap power plant that could potentially fit into most bays replacing a V8 gasser (for the sake of fuel economy), the titan xd was drawn up. This obviously isn't Cummins' only suitor, uncle Sam has been looking hard at these to augment the mil vehicle side of things with the same running gear, I've seen the proposal and have hands in said cookie jar.
True, it doesn't shift the same as a dodge with the 6.7, but your comparing apples to oranges. The transmission is the same mechanically, but the programming is completely different not only in application but weight and axle ratios. Not to mention the two engines have vastly different torque curves and outputs. If your wondering why the long data interpolation and drive cycles for this Turkey to settle down, just imagine for a second trying to learn input and output speeds, shift time intervals, converter lockup/slip, torque calulations, line pressure adjustments via PWM devices like force motors, over the entire rpm range of an engine at a given fuel input over a multitude of variables like....atmospheric (baro) pressures which affect manifold pressures, parasitic/pumping losses, temperatures of fluids/shear, and toss in some pixie dust for kicks. You can never be perfect and I recall plenty of grips on the dodge and Cummins forums regarding shift issues for both the 68 and 69RC. These platforms will have growing pains. I tune many a wheel vehicles and your always tweaking, it never stops completely. Just when you find a tune or calibration that's livable, some knucklehead friend or forum keyboard warrior springs an idea or new parameter to edit and you say a few choice words and dig right back in to the ECM/TCM:grin2:
My truck is doing great, sure I had my complaints, but the dealer was excellent every time, helps the techs are both diesel junkies that drive fords and chevy's at the local diesel dayz track events. So I'm in good hands....:storm:
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