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NHTSA Preliminary Investigation into Crankshaft failures

38K views 124 replies 33 participants last post by  Vann5  
#1 · (Edited)
I want to give a shout out to Jordan who called me this morning. We had a lengthy discussion about his crankshaft failure, his findings so far. I think we're starting to a clearer picture as to why crankshafts are popping in the early trucks.

However, it seems, due to his efforts the NHTSA has opened an investigation into this failure mode.

The case ID is PE23030. Here is a link to the pdf:

edit: Somehow I put up the wrong pdf... not even sure how I the wrong one!

If that pdf is to be believed, it suggests there was just shy of 40,000 of these engines manufactured.

Jordan was hoping to get some elevated visibility on this subject and perhaps get more people to complain to the NHTSA. I strongly support his initiative. He also will be doing a full tear down of the engine and hopefully will have the time and resources to investigate the failure without bias.

It would also seem that the crankshaft failing is secondary to the real problem, which appears to be oil delivery. I'm just repeating his research, so I hope he joins the forum and chimes in for himself.

I would also like to point out, that if you were deleted and turned up it may not be helpful to this investigation as it would give Cummins and Nissan something to point their fingers at and wash their hands of this issue. If the problem can be conclusively laid on oil delivery, then being turned up shouldn't matter anymore.
 
#5 ·
I really hope this works out for all of you diesel guys. I hope they do something similar regarding the cylinder 7 issue with the gassers.
 
owns 2018 Nissan Titan XD SV
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#6 ·
It would also seem that the crankshaft failing is secondary to the real problem, which appears to be oil delivery.
NavyCuda--do you know more about his thinking/research here? My thought on oil delivery is that problems there would be more likely to spin bearings than simply cause the crankshaft to snap. It seems clear that perhaps a few failures described over the past few years may have started with a rod knock that progressed to a badly spun bearing that immediately progressed to a broken crank (maybe...). I have a hard time reconciling the stories of sudden breakage at highway speeds absent any other stressors. That would seem to indicate casting or machining flaws or simply a crank at the bleeding edge of strength required for the HP. Maybe the same thing (spun bearing) is happening here just very rapidly?...It was really interesting to watch the video teardown on You Tube of the 5.0 with the snapped crank (
). It was the exact same rear crankpin failure as the one posted w/ pictures several years ago in the older thread. No spun bearings there--but evidence of main bearing wear that might indicate some issues.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes from the NHTSA investigation. The documents should be available on their website once they reach whatever conclusions/recommendation they are going to come up with.
 
#7 ·
@Vann5 If the oil pressure is insufficient the bearings can get hammered out.

Failure mode most often seems to be around torque peak. Oil pressure is not at max at torque peak, so if combined with somehow reduced oil pressure the bearings will get hammered out. Once the bearing clearance is generous enough, the crank is allowed to flex too much and you get a nearly clean break perpendicular to the centreline of the throw. Not the fault of the crank, none can withstand that.

How many failures started off with “I was doing 70, pulling weight on the interstate.”

Rawze actually told me about this failure in the ISX. So far from what Jordan has shared, there is strong evidence of oil delivery issues in his engine.
 
#13 ·
Just throwing this out there because I watch a ton of YouTube videos on engine tear downs and Titans. I remembered a guy suggesting something with the wire harness and injectors being stuck open because of it. You guys are WAY more knowledgeable than I so this may be nothing. But I’m sharing the video so you can decide for yourselves.

 
#24 ·
Cummins to pay record-setting $1.675 billion US environmental fine | Reuters

There is mention of the Cummins Titan in this article toward the end -- "Cummins previously said U.S. regulators were scrutinizing Nissan (7201.T) Titan trucks from the 2016 to 2019 model years and that it was developing a new software calibration and hardware fix and would recall the trucks. "

Is this in reference to the NHSTA investigation?
 
#25 ·
Is this in reference to the NHSTA investigation?
Short answer is no. The NHTSA investigation is purely based on safety concerns...e.g. the crankshafts may tend to break suddenly/unexpectedly which can lead to a loss of control and a resulting crash which can endanger lives. The NHTSA has regulatory authority to order a recall based on safety concerns, so we'll see what they determine and what action they take if any.

(Thanks for posting this Reuters link BTW!! Only article I saw that mentioned the Titan XD!)

The EPA, on the other hand, has regulatory authority to ding automakers when they violate clean air laws which go all the way back to the Clean Air Act of 1970 and subsequent Congressional legislative action and resulting EPA regulations. I was really disappointed to see that Cummins got caught with a flaw in the 6.7 engine calibration for the RAM trucks--was going to post some links on articles about the settlement agreement between DOJ and Cummins on Friday , Dec. 22nd.

Big damn mess, huge fine and lots of RAM engines to be recalled. The question is, is it only a software update, or is hardware involved. Even software is not innocuous. If it lowers HP, MPG etc, you can bet the lawyers will be coming after them for false statements about HP and torque. Yes, a big damn mess for Cummins and RAM.

What scares me about the article you linked is the words "hardware fix"...beyond the fact that our engines now appear to be part of the investigation overall. I'm just speculating here, but I don't think Cummins did something as blatant as VW did with their small diesel passenger car engines. That was outright "pre-meditated" fraud in terms of a completely different calibration when the ECM senses a test in progress. Still, even if it is just software correction for the RAM and or our engines, how far off were they--so to speak--in what kind of driving mode--and what effect will this have to power, longevity, and fuel economy. "Hardware fix"...uugh. We shall see...grab the popcorn, huh...

(This is why deletes have appeal of course. It is fair to say there is risk in either case these days with modern diesels. Risk of expensive emissions failures, premature engine wear etc. Or risk of deleting, which is illegal in all 50 states, though easier to fly under the radar in many--not judging those that delete here, just pointing out it does carry some risk.)
 
#29 ·
Just posting the latest update I found on the NHTSA website regarding the "Preliminary Evaluation" (PE23020). The NHTSA sent a 10-page letter to Nissan on January 26th and I've posted the PDF here. It is a long read, but basically they are asking for a LOT of data from Nissan to try to get a handle on the crankshaft failure issue. I recall someone lamenting in the forum way back something to the effect of "we'll never really know the numbers on this because Nissan won't share data..." The NHTSA investigation will get ALL of that data and Nissan can't--and won't-- stonewall those guys. What they will determine and what we might see is an open question, but as the owner of a 2016--and it does seem like those have broken more often--I'll really be interested to follow this.
 

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#33 ·
Well here I am the proud owner of a 2017 Titan XD SV 160,000 miles. I was driving down the interstate yesterday evening when the truck started lost power, made a horrible noise and began to vibrate violently. I got pulled to the shoulder and it died. Will not start back and seems to be locked up tight. Had it towed home and trying to figure out which direction I need to go with it. I’ve known about the issue for the past several months and have been following this forum slightly. I had hoped this wouldn’t happen with my truck, but it did and here I am.
 
#34 ·
Dang, sorry for your troubles!! It sounds like the crank may have just broken out of the blue. Did you hear any noises at all prior to the beginning of the horrible noises? Any slight knocking sounds at all or perhaps even slight ticking sounds in the prior days/weeks?

There seems to be a couple failure modes--just flat out BANG and broken crankshaft out of the blue and spun rods bearings that sound horrible, and can break the crank quickly but can also just make a helluva racket and lock up the motor.

If you were just cruising down the interstate with a proper oil level (like several unfortunate folks who have posted here) that sure as heck sounds like a sudden crank failure. But WHY?...uugh

I'd would certainly open a case with the NHTSA!!--your failure--cruising on the interstate--is the EXACT kind of thing that checks all the "safety recall" boxes. I'm not predicting that is what they will order Nissan to do, but sudden crank failure is a big thing...spun rod bearings ...not as much in the broader "safety" view though a financial gut-punch for the owner.

Link to NHTSA reporting portal here: Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
 
#37 ·
Question:
Has anyone on here who has had the come apart issue already replaced their motor? If so would ya point me in the right direction as to where you purchased from?? Thanks!
At least one fellow has rebuilt his engine. It’s big money to buy a new long block.
 
#38 ·
Others can weigh in--and I haven't had a failure in mine--but the main source is salvage yards of course and many of those have listings on Ebay. Take a look there--there are a handful of used motors from wrecked trucks on there at any time, but they are not cheap--on the order of ~8-12K from what I have seen. There just weren't a lot of these made.

Nissan wants an insane amount for short block (~14K) and almost 20K for a long block so not a great option. If the block is not damaged, you may be able to buy a crank and rebuild....
 
#42 ·
To the best of knowledge, after years of lightly studying these trucks and reading the service manual, the only thing computer specific parts are those which shouldn't be damaged from a broken crankshaft. Fuel injectors, and fuel rail pressure regulator are two items I know for certain have certain numbers in the ECM.

Each fuel injector has a trim code programed to the respective cylinder. The ECM decodes this number to understand the flow characteristics, which allows it to adjust fuel delivery for each cylinder. The engine should run if these codes do not match the injector (number 3 injector reinstalled into cylinder 5, for example) are out of order, but it may not be as smooth.

The fuel rail pressure regulator has to be moved to the new engine, or the ECM has to be reprogrammed to a new one. The manual states the truck won't start if that isn't addressed.

I'm sure there's a few other sensors that have to be moved to avoid more programming, but there's really not much of a reason to get rid of them anyways. Hold off any purchases until the damage is assessed. Maybe you got lucky as hell, and the block is unmolested, meaning a crankshaft and a simple rebuild is all you need. Or maybe it's been reduced to a bpat anchor. Only one way to find out.

Here's a thread I made with a shit load of information and some manuals you may find helpful. Keep us updated.
 
#43 ·
To the best of knowledge, after years of lightly studying these trucks and reading the service manual, the only thing computer specific parts are those which shouldn't be damaged from a broken crankshaft. Fuel injectors, and fuel rail pressure regulator are two items I know for certain have certain numbers in the ECM.

Each fuel injector has a trim code programed to the respective cylinder. The ECM decodes this number to understand the flow characteristics, which allows it to adjust fuel delivery for each cylinder. The engine should run if these codes do not match the injector (number 3 injector reinstalled into cylinder 5, for example) are out of order, but it may not be as smooth.

The fuel rail pressure regulator has to be moved to the new engine, or the ECM has to be reprogrammed to a new one. The manual states the truck won't start if that isn't addressed.

I'm sure there's a few other sensors that have to be moved to avoid more programming, but there's really not much of a reason to get rid of them anyways. Hold off any purchases until the damage is assessed. Maybe you got lucky as hell, and the block is unmolested, meaning a crankshaft and a simple rebuild is all you need. Or maybe it's been reduced to a bpat anchor. Only one way to find out.

Here's a thread I made with a shit load of information and some manuals you may find helpful. Keep us updated.
Thanks very much. Definitely useful info. I appreciate it
 
#46 ·
Well, the part number change happened in 2017 and there have been MY 2018 cranks that have broken with the new number based on self-reports on the thread I mentioned. So, opinions may vary, but I interpret that as a continuing risk. Clearly, your best bet is to find a 2019 motor on a salvage yard, but even then, the word "guarantee" is a risky word with these motors it seems.
 
#48 ·
Ok so I had the truck brought to a local diesel shop near me for a diagnosis. They called yesterday evening to let me know the truck needs a motor. Said it was internal failure of some sort but couldn’t be specific. They do not want to dig into it any deeper and they will not do an engine swap for me for lack of Nissan programming at their shop. I’ve been under the assumption that there will be no programming needed. Simply plug and play. Then out the door. I’m located in WV. Anyone on here have any recommendations? If you have swapped engines already did you run into any problems? This is gonna cost me a lot of money. Thanks
 
#52 ·
forgivenjhn316: NavyCuda is right, the ECM will have to be programmed with the injector codes and the turbo RCN actuator will have to be calibrated. Nissan has a proprietary software system called CONSULT that their dealers use. Some high end scan tools may be able to program the codes and calibrate the actuator.

A quality independent diesel shop may be able to do it if they have the right equipment, but not all do as you are finding with the current shop. Calling around to find one is probably the only solution, and yes, unfortunately it is going to be an expensive replacement.